Martial Arts

[munch520]

I remember seeing an explanation for that quote. IIRC, it came from a US police officer that referred to the fact that the suspect is usually on the ground prior to being handcuffed. That stems from the fact that is usually easier to control an individual who is lying on the floor with an officer on top and a gun pointed at him, than otherwise.

Oh ok - good points. I was commenting from the OPs stance...the defensive.

And I'll check out the youtube channel

[brzusa.1911]

The most realistic fight you will find are punches being thrown, elbows, hard kicks and knees, and perhaps going to the ground. Learn how punch fast and right, learn how to go to the ground and fight while there.

Also don't buy into places that will give you a Black Belt in X number of years, your Black Belt should be earned with sweat and not through time. That is another thing I luv about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, you don't get promoted to a higher belt because you've been attenting class for X amount of time, you get promoted because you earn it - you are able to finalize the people on the same belt rank as yourself and fight equally with the belt above yours.

Boxing, Muay Thai, ... pretty fun, unlike Karate or Tae Kwon Doe studios where you compete for points, you compete throwing and getting punches, kicks, elbows, knees..., whoever is able to take some and throw them well will stay standing.

[QuietShootr]

im from the school of thought that
only real experience is a true teacher
but you can certainly learn techniques and spar to assist
but its not like the real thing

for instance look at professional mma a majority of the elite fighters have a wrestling background this isnt because wrestling is that great a style its because its a competition based learning process these guys have wrestled 100's of times all out so they have a feel for it and know what works

MMA is horseshit. Yes, there are some tough, in shape guys doing it, but by and large it's like NASCAR - it's a vehicle for separating young, fat, testosterone infused males from their money.

[dookie1481]

MMA is horseshit. Yes, there are some tough, in shape guys doing it, but by and large it's like NASCAR - it's a vehicle for separating young, fat, testosterone infused males from their money.

How is it 'horseshit'?

[QuietShootr]

How is it 'horseshit'?

Because it doesn't mean shit, other than a huge, in shape guy will usually **** up a smaller in shape guy if most of the true fight-stopping moves are eliminated from consideration.

So what does that prove? That Robby Leatham could shoot me first with a pistol if we faced off down a street Old West style? Sure he could, but that fails the so-what test. I'm not getting in a fair fight with Robby, if I ever had to fight him at all. Could he beat me if we both got thrown into a darkened office building? Now that's a little more interesting (and valid) if we're talking about stupid contest-type comparisons.

It's good to be in shape. It's not good to be a musclehead gym rat who goes around in Tapout gear trying to get people to come at you, bro. And that seems to be what 90% of the MMA crowd is all about.

Now, if the small guy is allowed to use a Clinch Pick or Karambit, all of a sudden all that BJJ shit starts to look a lot less fun, eh?

I'm reminded of something Robert B. Parker wrote in one of the Spenser novels. Spenser gets attacked by one of the opposing tough guys, administers a beatdown, and as the tough guy is bleeding on the parking lot deck he says, "If only you didn't have that gun." Spenser draws his gun, places it against the tough guy's nose, and says, "But, see, I will ALWAYS have a gun...and that's the difference between me and you."

[dookie1481]

Because it doesn't mean shit, other than a huge, in shape guy will usually **** up a smaller in shape guy if most of the true fight-stopping moves are eliminated from consideration.

So what does that prove? That Robby Leatham could shoot me first with a pistol if we faced off down a street Old West style? Sure he could, but that fails the so-what test. I'm not getting in a fair fight with Robby, if I ever had to fight him at all. Could he beat me if we both got thrown into a darkened office building? Now that's a little more interesting (and valid) if we're talking about stupid contest-type comparisons.

It's good to be in shape. It's not good to be a musclehead gym rat who goes around in Tapout gear trying to get people to come at you, bro. And that seems to be what 90% of the MMA crowd is all about.

Now, if the small guy is allowed to use a Clinch Pick or Karambit, all of a sudden all that BJJ shit starts to look a lot less fun, eh?

I'm reminded of something Robert B. Parker wrote in one of the Spenser novels. Spenser gets attacked by one of the opposing tough guys, administers a beatdown, and as the tough guy is bleeding on the parking lot deck he says, "If only you didn't have that gun." Spenser draws his gun, places it against the tough guy's nose, and says, "But, see, I will ALWAYS have a gun...and that's the difference between me and you."

Interesting that you brought up the Clinch Pick. Your points have a lot of validity if you look at self-defense as being constructed of discreet "components" instead of looking at how those components would work when integrated.

This is the sort of thing discussed on www.totalprotectioninteractive.com - it's a great board (run by SouthNarc, I believe)

I don't disagree with your point about a lot of the guys at MMA gyms (at least the ones I tend to interact with), but denouncing it because of that is like saying guns are bad because the average gun owner buys a Judge and a DPMS and shoots dirt.

[QuietShootr]

Interesting that you brought up the Clinch Pick. Your points have a lot of validity if you look at self-defense as being constructed of discreet "components" instead of looking at how those components would work when integrated.

This is the sort of thing discussed on www.totalprotectioninteractive.com - it's a great board (run by SouthNarc, I believe)

I don't disagree with your point about a lot of the guys at MMA gyms (at least the ones I tend to interact with), but denouncing it because of that is like saying guns are bad because the average gun owner buys a Judge and a DPMS and shoots dirt.

re your first point: I didn't mean to give that impression - I believe it's all integrated, from language skills up to the ability to effectively emplace and employ heavy machine guns and AT weapons. Where I disagree is the overemphasis on "beating up" skill as if it means more than it does. Now: if it's your job to go hands on with people all the time without seriously damaging them or killing them (as in police officer or correctional facility worker), then certainly you need to spend more time on the OORAH chest-beating shit. That's where you make your money, both literally and figuratively. For everyone else, civilians AND soldiers, it doesn't matter that much.

As a non-police officer, the fact is, your mouth will get you out of a good percentage of the situations you find yourself in, running will get you out of a good percentage of the rest, and if you can't do either, it's probably time to shoot, not go all UFC on somebody's ass.

I think someone already said it - boxing is absolutely not the end-all be all by any means, but six months to a year of it would do most people a world of good. You learn several good things: 1) Getting hit hurts, but it doesn't kill you. 2) you can fight through getting the shit knocked out of you if you've had to do it before. and 3) good big guy beats good small guy almost every time if you impose artificial restraints. Now, you've learned how to block, look for opportunities and weaknesses, and how to throw a good punch. Now move on before you start becoming the boxing equivalent of "COME AT ME BRO" thinking everyone's going to fight Marquis of Queensbury rules.

[dookie1481]

re your first point: I didn't mean to give that impression - I believe it's all integrated, from language skills up to the ability to effectively emplace and employ heavy machine guns and AT weapons. Where I disagree is the overemphasis on "beating up" skill as if it means more than it does. Now: if it's your job to go hands on with people all the time without seriously damaging them or killing them (as in police officer or correctional facility worker), then certainly you need to spend more time on the OORAH chest-beating shit. That's where you make your money, both literally and figuratively. For everyone else, civilians AND soldiers, it doesn't matter that much.

As a non-police officer, the fact is, your mouth will get you out of a good percentage of the situations you find yourself in, running will get you out of a good percentage of the rest, and if you can't do either, it's probably time to shoot, not go all UFC on somebody's ass.

I think someone already said it - boxing is absolutely not the end-all be all by any means, but six months to a year of it would do most people a world of good. You learn several good things: 1) Getting hit hurts, but it doesn't kill you. 2) you can fight through getting the shit knocked out of you if you've had to do it before. and 3) good big guy beats good small guy almost every time if you impose artificial restraints. Now, you've learned how to block, look for opportunities and weaknesses, and how to throw a good punch. Now move on before you start becoming the boxing equivalent of "COME AT ME BRO" thinking everyone's going to fight Marquis of Queensbury rules.

I may have confused what you were saying. I agree with you.

[munch520]

it's probably time to shoot, not go all UFC on somebody's ass.

And if there's a malf? Or the guns knocked out of your hand? It's undisputed to say some type of hand to hand combative is essential.

And I think you're judging the practice/sport based on its' followers. MMA and its roots are widespread throughout Columbus and i don't think the sport perpetuates/leads the fans to act the way they do. Though I do agree that 90% of the tapout-wearing tools are complete pussies/are 'those guys' that go to the gym just to do curls.

On point though with boxing. Fundamentals yes, but even more importantly - as you said, it teaches you how to get half ****ed and still remember your name. In the ring or on the street, you're gonna get hit. If you can't get past that brief fog/oh shit moment after you get clocked...there's no hope for you and there never will be. What's more, if you can't throw a proper punch....well...you're probably wearing a Tapout shirt

Edit: I still and will always believe that no one discipline is the best. I started with the traditional karate and boxing at a young age and went to other disciplines as they became more available. Can't stop at just one...

[NCPatrolAR]

When it comes to gi versus no gi I prefer to do gi work. It should be noted that Marcelo Garcia devotes 90% of his workouts to gi work and only to no gi and is considered one of the prmier no gi grapplers on the planet.

When it comes to practical use; I think MMA is one of the better martial arts that can be studied. Just like with everything else; it isnt the end-ll, be-all but it solves a lot of problems and certainly cant hurt someone regardless of their career.