"titanium" plate fraud

[chadbag]

I can't speak for anyone else, but it is certainly a common situation around here...

I was wondering about returning a product that you did not want, versus one you were reviewing or testing, which I assume is what you are doing?

[DocGKR]

Hmm, vendor is dishonest regarding plate construction and lies about protective ability; I think shooting the plates before returning them is reasonable given the circumstances--it certainly confirmed the fact that the vendor is not honest...

[mike_556]

Hmm, vendor is dishonest regarding plate construction and lies about protective ability; I think shooting the plates before returning them is reasonable given the circumstances--it certainly confirmed the fact that the vendor is not honest...

That was exactly my thought as well.

[kartoffel]

Hmm, vendor is dishonest regarding plate construction and lies about protective ability; I think shooting the plates before returning them is reasonable given the circumstances--it certainly confirmed the fact that the vendor is not honest...

While that's true, if the plates actually HAD been titanium they'd have been even easier to shoot through.

I think there are two issues:
(1) The vendor lied about the material.
(2) The vendor lied about the NIJ ballistic protection level.

That being said, you COULD make a titanium IIIa plate.... it would just need to be really really thick!

[Abraxas]

Is titanium really that weak of a material? Not being any kind of metallurgist I have always been under the impression that it is an incredibly strong material.

[ZRH]

Is titanium really that weak of a material? Not being any kind of metallurgist I have always been under the impression that it is an incredibly strong material.

It's lighter and more dimensionally stable (thermally) than an equivalently sized piece of mild steel. That's why it's good for aerospace applications. Steel armor plate is significantly stronger but weighs 40-50% more.

[Abraxas]

It's lighter and more dimensionally stable (thermally) than an equivalently sized piece of mild steel. That's why it's good for aerospace applications. Steel armor plate is significantly stronger but weighs 40-50% more.

So what you are saying is it is a weight to strength ratio kind of thing with a high temperature tolerance. So then why are drill bits coated in Ti if steel is still stronger? Is it because of the heat generated by drilling?

[chadbag]

I suspect (not being a metallurgist) that Titanium may also be somewhat brittle to sudden impacts? There are different kinds of stresses to withstand. A large lateral force trying to bend something is a lot different than a sudden strong impact. Just guessing here though.

A drill bit is thermal mostly, and friction, not a sudden impact.

[ZRH]

So what you are saying is it is a weight to strength ratio kind of thing with a high temperature tolerance. So then why are drill bits coated in Ti if steel is still stronger? Is it because of the heat generated by drilling?

Aye, strength to weight (density would be better term). It's also very resistant to corrosion. Drill bits are titanium nitride (TiN) coated because it's something along the lines of 85 RC, and keeps it's hardness at significantly higher temps, but it's also technically a ceramic not a metal.

I mentioned the thermal part because (for example) aluminum changes dramatically with change in temperature, titanium changes very little dimensionally (before it burns anyway), this is important for anything that has close tolerances. Like compressor blades in jets.

They do make armor out of it but I do not know details of the composition. The A10 Warthog has a titanium armored cockpit IIRC.

Alloys can do a lot that base metals cant. Steel has millions of different alloys. I'm not a metallurgist so I can't tell you why it does this stuff though. I just make things -.-

[Abraxas]

They do make armor out of it but I do not know details of the composition. The A10 Warthog has a titanium armored cockpit IIRC.

It does, which is what lead me to believe Ti is a good metal for armor but you earlier answer of strength to weight explains it, given it is on aircraft.