Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 33

Thread: Switching to a Trust

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    44
    Feedback Score
    0

    Switching to a Trust

    A couple years ago I built a SBR for myself. Well, I am now in a better spot money wise so I figured I would like to get some suppressors and maybe a SBS. So I am getting a trust made for said NFA items.
    Now, my original sbr is not on a trust. Am I basically screwed if I want to put my SBR on the new trust I am going to have done? Meaning, will I have to shell out another $200 to put it on the trust? Can I maybe just transfer to the trust since I already paid?

    Reading all I could on the NFA stuff leads me to believe I will have to pay the tax again if I move it(SBR) to the trust.

    Just trying to see if anyone else has come across this? The main reasons I want to move it to the trust is so my son and wife can(legally) shoot it and that if something happened to me it would be less headache/cheaper for them to take legal possession.

    What do you all think? If I missed the answer in a search here or on the ATF site please school me!
    Thanks
    Mark

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Posts
    4,079
    Feedback Score
    15 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by OrdnanceCorp View Post
    Reading all I could on the NFA stuff leads me to believe I will have to pay the tax again if I move it(SBR) to the trust.
    Correct. What you're trying to do IS possible, but you will pay the tax a second time, since you're effecting a second transfer (i.e. from your personal collection to a RLT). Although it might defy a certain logic, it really makes no practical difference that you are also the Trustee.

    AC

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    44
    Feedback Score
    0
    Army Chief, I was afraid of that. I guess I was hoping against hope that I didn't have to spend another $200 just to put it in the trust. Crazy I have to pay to transfer to myself.

    Damn, another $200 to "the man"...sucks. I could have used that for another NFA purchase. Oh well, I guess I should be thankful I have the right to own any NFA in this day and age.
    Thanks for the confirmation.
    Mark

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    807
    Feedback Score
    0
    Just leave your SBR alone (personal transfer) and start your trust and get new items through the trust. Then, anytime down the road, you can form 4 your SBR to your trust if you ever want to (and have $200 lying around).

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    27,215
    Feedback Score
    14 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonAAC View Post
    Just leave your SBR alone
    NO SHIT!!

    I don't get why people get all assed up over this shit. Once you get the item.... NOBODY gives a shit if it's in your name, a trust, whatever.

    The form 1 or 4 is just the red tape you need to get through to get the item under your control legally. Beyond that.... if you're not involved in any illegal activity.... no one will ever care about your trust, forms, stamps or anything.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Posts
    4,079
    Feedback Score
    15 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by OrdnanceCorp View Post
    Crazy I have to pay to transfer to myself.
    Actually, you raise a great point.

    We tend to think of RLT transfer weapons as our personal property, and pursue them largely because they involve a simpler and more streamlined process. Again, this follows a certain logic, since the weapon ends up in the same safe as it would have had it been transferred to an individual. That same individual exercises complete control over the weapon, has the right to fire it, has the responsibility of maintaining it, keeps possession of it, and has the right to direct final disposition over it at any time.

    Legally, however, that individual is not the owner of the weapon under an RLT. Even though it changes nothing in terms of real-time custody and use, in this case, you really aren't paying to transfer the weapon to yourself. You are paying to transfer it to a completely separate legal entity that you just happen to control.

    It's a small distinction, and no great revelation to most, but we just have to keep in mind that the relationship of the individual to the trust has no legal significance where ownership is concerned, and that's what we're establishing here: ownership -- not fair use. In reality, you would be paying to relinquish ownership to another party, and it is a mere technicality that that "party" is an entity which has been expressedly designed to serve your own aims.

    Isn't NFA law fun? =]

    AC

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    44
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    NO SHIT!!

    I don't get why people get all assed up over this shit. Once you get the item.... NOBODY gives a shit if it's in your name, a trust, whatever.

    The form 1 or 4 is just the red tape you need to get through to get the item under your control legally. Beyond that.... if you're not involved in any illegal activity.... no one will ever care about your trust, forms, stamps or anything.
    Damn it's alright markm. Calm down, no one is assed up over it!

    Yes no one really cares, I am well aware of that, unless of course I die...then the government will be in my affairs. I would rather my son and/or wife not have to pay the tax and go through the BS with the ATF. Hence, the trust vs personal transfer issue I am trying to resolve JIC.
    Mark

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    44
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Army Chief View Post
    Actually, you raise a great point.

    ...you really aren't paying to transfer the weapon to yourself. You are paying to transfer it to a completely separate legal entity that you just happen to control.

    AC
    Yes Sir. I realized that point a few minutes after I submitted the post.
    Oh well, I will get around to getting the SBR on the Trust at some point when I get some sort of winfall. I wasn't really concerned at this exact moment, just looking towards the future.
    Thanks
    Mark

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Posts
    4,079
    Feedback Score
    15 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by OrdnanceCorp View Post
    Oh well, I will get around to getting the SBR on the Trust at some point when I get some sort of windfall. I wasn't really concerned at this exact moment, just looking towards the future.
    Absolutely, and where this could get interesting in a technical/legal sense is when you invite your spouse or son to come out to the range with you to shoot your new RLT-registered suppressor which is attached to your individually-registered SBR. We're admittedly splitting some incredibly stupid hairs here, but under the law, your family members would only be half-legal.

    Lest this sound completely farfetched, we would do well to remember that an NFA owner is really only one unfortunate malfunction or richochet away from scrutiny when he's out on the firing line, and even the best-intentioned interpretation of the law would still result in problems if the method of registration precluded use of the weapon by a family member or friend. An RLT allows you to designate who is/is not an authorized user under the law, which is something that no individual transfer can do.

    To me, the other real advantage of the RLT approach is not that it allows you to avoid the up-front paperwork, fingerprints and signatures associated with an individual transfer, but rather that it involves less complication and expense over the long term when it comes time to pass the weapon(s) along to your progeny.

    AC

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Southern VA
    Posts
    951
    Feedback Score
    26 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Army Chief View Post
    Absolutely, and where this could get interesting in a technical/legal sense is when you invite your spouse or son to come out to the range with you to shoot your new RLT-registered suppressor which is attached to your individually-registered SBR. We're admittedly splitting some incredibly stupid hairs here, but under the law, your family members would only be half-legal.

    AC
    AC, this confuses me a bit as I've always been under the impression that anyone could legally shoot my individually registered NFA items under my supervision. Is this not the case? Thanks.
    "A 'sporting purpose' is what we use to describe actions taken with a football." -S.W.A.T. Magazine

    "...if you are cruising the ghetto looking for crack and tranny hookers and you shoot their transgender pimp for staring at you the wrong way, then yeah, you might have a problem." -Iraqgunz

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •