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Thread: First SBR, need help

  1. #11
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    Hmac gave you the link up top, but again, read this https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=9830. This is not an off the cuff thing to do. Please read through the linked thread. Here is the first post:

    "How to SBR Your Lower by Scottryan

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Here is a guide to properly SBR your lower. I put this together due to the rash of “mishaps” that seem to plague people who are SBRing their lower.

    1. Live in a Free State

    2. Realize that you will be married to this lower probably for the rest of your life and you will get pennies on the dollar if you try to sell it after the SBR process.

    3. Buy a quality lower preferably from a company that will service it after it has been SBRed. Olympic Arms doesn't count and neither does any cast 1980s crap.

    4. Check all the pin holes to see if they are in spec. Trigger/hammer holes are .154” and takedown holes are .248”. The tolerances are +/- 0.001”. Anything more than that is out of spec. I don’t care what any blueprints say. You can take 100 lowers and measure them yourself. You will come up with these numbers.

    5. Measure the magazine well. A good magazine well will measure .900” at the front and back and .970” at the slot. If you are less than this, you may have magazine drop free problems.

    6. Assemble the lower with a quality LPK such as Colt or LMT. Use a quality stock with proper buffer.

    7. Find an good carbine upper of known functioning. Better yet, two or three good carbine uppers that function well.

    8. Place carbine upper and lower together and fire a minimum of 1,000 rounds through this combo to make sure you lower is good. Preferably use a variety of magazines.

    9. Disassemble lower.

    10. Find a good engraver. Orion Arms is good. Your local trophy shop/jewelry store is probably not so don’t waste your time, neither is your Dremel tool.

    11. Send lower off for engraving. You do this before you send in any paperwork to the ATF in case something happens to your lower during shipping to the engraver or damage at the engraver. You don’t want to explain to the ATF that your NFA firearm is lost in the mail. Anybody that does this backwards is a complete idiot.

    12. Get lower back and make sure everything is ok.

    13. Send in NFA paperwork

    14. Get approved NFA paperwork.

    15. Get less than 16” barrel/upper.

    16. Assembly your gun and enjoy.

    Anybody that follow these steps will not have any problems."
    Last edited by NoveskeFan; 04-05-11 at 04:25.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devildog0311 View Post
    Ok Thank you.

    So basically I need to build the lower first, get it stamped and then I can build the upper with no issues? And which form do I need form 1 or form 4? And do I fill out the form before I begin the lower build? And where do I send the lower to get stamped?
    By "get it stamped", do you mean getting the Tax Stamp approval? Choose the lower, get it engraved, send off Tax Stamp paperwork to ATF, get approval, buy SBR upper and enjoy. Also, are you doing a trust or getting local chief/sheriff LEO to sign off on the form? If you are building the gun from parts, I think you need the form 1, if getting a SBR from Noveske or other dealer, then form 4.

  3. #13
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    Devildog,

    Slow down and take a breather. Now if you want to purchase a short upper for potential use on a lower to build an SBR that's ok. Some people will tell you to not have them located in the same place because of so-called constructive intent. All that aside. Unless you broadcast to the world that you have it and then proceed to do sumb things, no one will know. The alternative is simply keep the upper located somewhere else.

    1. If you are building the SBR yourself (in other words you are buying a short AR upper and putting it on a lower receiver) then you are the manufacturer. That means you will need a Form 1.

    2. You will fill out the forms as described elsewhere and submit them, along with the other required stuff along with your payment of 200.00 dollars to the BATF (NFA Branch)

    3. They will cash the check and review everything. At some point in the future they will approve the Form 1 and affix a tax stamp to it. They will send it back to you and when you have it in your possession you will then mate the upper and lower in matrimony and have an SBR.

    That's it down and dirty. I advise you to read the NFA area here because everything has been talked about and laid out before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devildog0311 View Post
    Ok Thank you.

    So basically I need to build the lower first, get it stamped and then I can build the upper with no issues? And which form do I need form 1 or form 4? And do I fill out the form before I begin the lower build? And where do I send the lower to get stamped?



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

  4. #14
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    brother,
    you're in Texas, contact Sean Cody and have him set you up a Trust, he'll fill out the forms for you, you sign and send to the ATF.
    he has no problem sitting and explaining the entire process out to you also..

    Sean Cody
    seancody@houstonattorney.org
    281.451.4175
    www.HoustonAttorney.org
    www.TexasNFATrust.com

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimberFan View Post
    By "get it stamped", do you mean getting the Tax Stamp approval? Choose the lower, get it engraved, send off Tax Stamp paperwork to ATF, get approval, buy SBR upper and enjoy. Also, are you doing a trust or getting local chief/sheriff LEO to sign off on the form? If you are building the gun from parts, I think you need the form 1, if getting a SBR from Noveske or other dealer, then form 4.
    What do you mean by a trust?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Devildog,

    Slow down and take a breather. Now if you want to purchase a short upper for potential use on a lower to build an SBR that's ok. Some people will tell you to not have them located in the same place because of so-called constructive intent. All that aside. Unless you broadcast to the world that you have it and then proceed to do sumb things, no one will know. The alternative is simply keep the upper located somewhere else.

    1. If you are building the SBR yourself (in other words you are buying a short AR upper and putting it on a lower receiver) then you are the manufacturer. That means you will need a Form 1.

    2. You will fill out the forms as described elsewhere and submit them, along with the other required stuff along with your payment of 200.00 dollars to the BATF (NFA Branch)

    3. They will cash the check and review everything. At some point in the future they will approve the Form 1 and affix a tax stamp to it. They will send it back to you and when you have it in your possession you will then mate the upper and lower in matrimony and have an SBR.

    That's it down and dirty. I advise you to read the NFA area here because everything has been talked about and laid out before.
    Thanks a lot man, I appreciate it/ I have one question about something you said though. What did you mean by some people will want to tell you not to have them in the same place because of constructive intent? Are you saying purchase the upper, but do not keep them in the same place? Lost me on this.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by randolph View Post
    brother,
    you're in Texas, contact Sean Cody and have him set you up a Trust, he'll fill out the forms for you, you sign and send to the ATF.
    he has no problem sitting and explaining the entire process out to you also..

    Sean Cody
    seancody@houstonattorney.org
    281.451.4175
    www.HoustonAttorney.org
    www.TexasNFATrust.com
    Now this is what I was looking for, and what you call texas love, lol. Thanks man!

    Semper Fi!
    Last edited by Devildog0311; 04-05-11 at 05:36.

  8. #18
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    As in do not have them in the same place until you receive approval from BATFE otherwise you are in illegal possession of a short barreled rifle.

    The only way you can reasonably be caught is if you are selling dope from your house, surfing the net for chilporn and planning to kill your neighbors. Otherwise no one knows but you and the upper/lower.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devildog0311 View Post
    Thanks a lot man, I appreciate it/ I have one question about something you said though. What did you mean by some people will want to tell you not to have them in the same place because of constructive intent? Are you saying purchase the upper, but do not keep them in the same place? Lost me on this.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    As in do not have them in the same place until you receive approval from BATFE otherwise you are in illegal possession of a shot barreled rifle.

    The only way you can reasonably be caught is if you are selling dope from your house, surfing the net for chilporn and planning to kill your neighbors. Otherwise no one knows but you and the upper/lower.
    In that regard, what if he actually took it out and shot it? Who would know? I've never seen or heard of ATF agents on NFA patrol. I think ATF agents coming to his house to try to root out "constructive intent" is probably no more or less likely than finding one at your local range, or back on the "south 40" wanting to see your tax stamp. At least in some or many parts of the country.

    Just curious. Do you know or have you heard of anyone busted by the ATF at the range for illegal possession of an SBR?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimberFan View Post
    Pretty much, if you have a SBR upper and ANY complete lower or parts to complete said lower, you will have to prove you didnt intend to put it all together into an illegal firearm. Get the approval first, then get your engraved lower, then get your upper. YOU WILL HAVE LEGAL PROBLEMS IF YOU BUY THE SBR UPPER WITHOUT HAVING THE REGISTERED LOWER. Use the search feature on this site, plenty of info on the process.
    To clarify...there is no problem buying, owning, or storing an SBR upper, but you are technically in violation of the law if you have it while you also possess a compatible lower that is not registered. While you MIGHT have legal problems in that event, the odds are vastly against it IMHO. I've never heard or read about anyone having that issue. I suspect, but could be wrong, that ATF has a lot more serious issues on their plate than pursuing individual NFA violations.

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