Hosting a "training day"

[DCsampson]

Hey all,

I have been put in charge of running a carbine match/training day to be run after our regular monthly defensive pistol matches.(IDPA)

I am planning on using the same pistol stages that were used earlier in the day (with slight modification as necessary) in order to save time on setup. I also plan on setting up a few additional, simple drills that are more specific to the carbine.

Is there anyone who has done something similar? If so, your advice would be greatly appreciated.

My primary concerns are:

1. Safety. Other than eliminating the steel targets from the pistol match, are there any other safety concerns specific to the carbine?

2. Will the pistol stages be a reasonable challenge when shot with the carbine or will it not be successful without a carbine specific setup?

3. I am planning to run it as "training" as opposed to a match. I am partially trying to avoid the additional work of keeping score and having separate divisions and all but I honestly get more out of shooting with a group of like minded shooters, with everyone working towards the same goal of personal improvement.....without the hassle of keeping track of penalties and who's "gaming". At the end of the day, it's usually obvious who the better shooters are anyway. Potential pitfalls?

4. Am I missing anything else?

I'm expecting only about 12 shooters at the most, a couple of them LE, and I don't have a clue about where anyones skill levels are.

I have been SOing IDPA matches for the last 5 years and have shot a few multigun matches. Other than the multigun, there is no other opportunity for group carbine practice.

My goal for this gig is to have a regular training day where I can get together with like minded guys to learn from each other and push each other to be better. I suppose it's success will depend on wheather or not the other shooters are "like minded".

Your experienced input is appreciated.

DC

[Alaskapopo]

Hey all,

I have been put in charge of running a carbine match/training day to be run after our regular monthly defensive pistol matches.(IDPA)

I am planning on using the same pistol stages that were used earlier in the day (with slight modification as necessary) in order to save time on setup. I also plan on setting up a few additional, simple drills that are more specific to the carbine.

Is there anyone who has done something similar? If so, your advice would be greatly appreciated.

My primary concerns are:

1. Safety. Other than eliminating the steel targets from the pistol match, are there any other safety concerns specific to the carbine?

2. Will the pistol stages be a reasonable challenge when shot with the carbine or will it not be successful without a carbine specific setup?

3. I am planning to run it as "training" as opposed to a match. I am partially trying to avoid the additional work of keeping score and having separate divisions and all but I honestly get more out of shooting with a group of like minded shooters, with everyone working towards the same goal of personal improvement.....without the hassle of keeping track of penalties and who's "gaming". At the end of the day, it's usually obvious who the better shooters are anyway. Potential pitfalls?

4. Am I missing anything else?

I'm expecting only about 12 shooters at the most, a couple of them LE, and I don't have a clue about where anyones skill levels are.

I have been SOing IDPA matches for the last 5 years and have shot a few multigun matches. Other than the multigun, there is no other opportunity for group carbine practice.

My goal for this gig is to have a regular training day where I can get together with like minded guys to learn from each other and push each other to be better. I suppose it's success will depend on wheather or not the other shooters are "like minded".

Your experienced input is appreciated.

DC

You're on the right track. I host three gun matches. Generally I have 4 to 6 stages. I run lfield courses (high round count stages with lots of movement) In the past I have re shot a pistol stage as a CQB rifle stage. Of coruse you have to remove the steel. I like to run at least one short CQB stage and then 1 longer range (more accuracy challenge stage) I only have a 180 yard range so I make use of reduced sized USPSA targets (1/2 size) to simulate range. I also do things like stick a half size target inside a hostage target so any hits that miss the target will incure big penalties for hitting a hostage. I recommend running mostly 2 gun stages. Meaning pistol rifle or pistol shotgun. Then have one big stage with all three. It all depends on the time you have to run the match. With the shotgun I use steel targets and clays.

For safety concerns I would never have people re holster a hot handgun. 90% of your shooters will be fine but that 10% can ruin it for you. I would also not have people use slings. Again for most shooters its fine but for the few its an accident waiting to happen. Use grounding buckets or tables.

I personally would not run it as a training. Most of us who enjoy firearms are competative by nature. My point being if they don't keep score why even bother showing up. Don't worry about divisions. My first matches I ran I just told people to bring what you carry or use for home defense. (meaning anything went except for no open pistols from USPSA) Use IDPA's scoring system it works fairly well. If you want since its your first match just tell them to bring what they want and you can see how it works out and decide on divisions in later matches once you know what people want to bring. Make it a fun match for bragging rights only. When I run my matches I generally use IDPA scoring with USPSA stage rules. (no stupid rules about dropping loaded mags) But you can run it how you want.
Here is a video from my Sept 11 2010 match. Never mind the blooper of me dropping a mag when the buzzer went off. The bowling pins were shot with shotgun slugs. They are one of the few safe re active targets for shotgun slugs. The stage started with steel targets for shot, then to the bowling pins and some paper for shotgun slugs. Then to the rifle then to the handgun. This was a big stage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0tm2Ot133g

Pat

[M4Fundi]

Great info Pat!

I can only add when you have your grounding buckets put something in the bottom of them to protect the muzzle other than a new closed cell foam shooting pad or at the end of the shoot your shooting pad will look like swiss cheese from all those hot muzzles

[DCsampson]

Thanks for the input guys.......I hadn't thought of the pistol reholstering on the clock so I'll make a note of that. I think it will be carbine only anyways. I'll keep an eye on the guys that are signed up for the carbine shoot during the pistol match and try to get an idea of their competence (or lack thereof).

[M4Fundi]

I personally would not run it as a training. Most of us who enjoy firearms are competative by nature. My point being if they don't keep score why even bother showing up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0tm2Ot133g

Pat

I agree with Pat on this. Look at eBay they have convinced everyone that if you spend your $ here you have "won" something I would just say after IDPA we are going to have a fun and simple "Carbine Side Match" and if scoring is a headache or a deal killer, just come up with the simplest scoring system you want (most headshots wins). Get the guys accustomed to wanting to bring their rifle of choice with them to IDPA and make it as little gear & $ as possible. For some who just spent $ on gas, 150 rounds pistol ammo, entry fee, ass chewing from the wife, 1 1/2 hours driving and then convincing them to spend more time and $ for carbine will be a hard sell, so you might keep it simple, fast and low round count. Also since it is a side match you can have prizes or jackpot and not break IDPA rules.

Also, you might make it boltgun friendly as you know that all of the shooters up there are more boltaction LR shooters anyway.

Safety... if you do decide to mix handgun/rifle then tables are OK to dump rifle for transition to pistol (if not allowing/using slings) and as long as no one is going to move forward of table. If the cof is more dynamic than that then you need very stable plastic barrels (or similar) that the shooter can dump his rifle muzzle down into before transitioning to pistol and moving forward of that position.

If you are competing at Logan's you might also ask to setup the cof in question on one of the longer ranges so you can just add a few LR targets or steel that you have the shooters engage when they run it with carbine and obviously blend those targets to force them to engage close, far, close, far, etc. which is more fun than just engaging at start or finish of cof.

Good Luck