LEO Marksmanship and Training Standards

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

As a CCW permit holder, one thing that I often see in general and get asked about in particular is the lack of training for CCW than being a LEO. Colorado doesn't have a live fire requirement, only a class.

Given that:
CCW is vastly different than carrying on duty.
I don't want to start a minimum training for CCW argument.
I understand that LEO are going to more scenario training than pure shooting skills.

-What are common (national? FBI, Marshals?) standards for marksmanship with a handgun? (Round count, distance, target & scoring).
-How much handgun training would a new police officer get in training (rounds and time). And how much on going training is common?

Really just looking for mechanics of shooting, rather than all the use of force training since that is so different for LEOs and CCWs. I'm not looking to learn how to do felony stops.

Do these standards vary much regionally or by state or muni?

[C45P312]

Don't know if this question is directed towards the guys at Magpul or not but I'll chime in with my experience.


-What are common (national? FBI, Marshals?) standards for marksmanship with a handgun? (Round count, distance, target & scoring). The standards for marksmanship vary greatly on the role of the LEO. A regular patrol officer will probably need a 70% qual score to pass while someone assigned to swat will need a 90%. This is what I'm guessing.

Nonetheless, I'm pretty sure the only standard is what the agency qualification is. FLETC's qual is a 60 rounder shooting from 1.5, 3, 7, 15, and 25 yards at the Transition 2 target and will be going to a Transition 11 target with incorporated movement at 1.5, 3, and 7 yards.

-How much handgun training would a new police officer get in training (rounds and time). And how much on going training is common?
I'm sure gun handling skills and marksmanship skills are stressed in Academy. If it was, there would be better shooters out there or more people would be failing. Nonetheless, that is why there is a minimum. If a shooter barely pass, he or she still passes on paper.

-Do these standards vary much regionally or by state or muni?
Every agency is going to be different.

When it boils down, LEO will never become better shooters on the government's dime. He or she will need spend their own hard earned cash on training, shooting, and ammo.

[.45fmjoe]

It varies state by state. In FL our firearms training in the academy is 80 hours.

To qualify in FL, you have to qualify with 48 rounds of handgun, twice. 6 rounds of the 48 are at 25 yards. 12 at 15 yards, 24 at 7 yards and 6 at 3 yards from the hip. You have 6 attempts to score two qualifying scores (39 rounds) back to back.

Then you qualify at night or in the dark at an indoor range. It's 36 rounds, all at 7 yards. Half is with no light and half with a flashlight in the weak hand.

Then shotgun qualification is IIRC 81 pellets total, 69 to qualify. All are at 15 yards barricaded.

Targets are standard B21E targets, and only hits in the center torso or head/neck count. If you hit a shoulder you "missed."

[wilco423]

-How much handgun training would a new police officer get in training (rounds and time). And how much on going training is common?

(snip)

Do these standards vary much regionally or by state or muni?

I can only speak to these two questions. For my department (30 officers total) the initial training is 3-4 days for firearms with 500-1000 rds fired, depending on the skill of the recruit. In MN, there is no statewide standard for a particular qualification, but you are required to shoot three times a year. In theory, the training is vetted by the POST board. We budget for at least 50rds of handgun ammo per officer per month, but 4-5 of us shoot at least three times that because most of the cops only do the required shoots.

Also, the basic handgun training is done in the education process here, so new officers will have at least some skill. When I went through the 2-year program, I think I fired maybe 500 rds over eight weeks of firearms training.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

What are the targets and how are they scored? Thanks!

[wilco423]

What are the targets and how are they scored? Thanks!

I'll grab our qualifier next time I'm in.

We've been using these Trident Concepts targets more for training lately (the gray circle is pretty pale - can't even see it past 5 yds).

[NavyDavy55]

Our initial firearms training consists of 70 hours and 900 to 1000 rounds.

We now qualify twice a year.

We shoot from the 25, 15, and 7 yard line. We have movement forward and back and side to side all while shooting. One moving drill moves us to 3 feet of the target.

We shoot a Standard TQ-19 target.



http://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=TQ-19

[az doug]

56 hours of handgun training and approximately 2000 rounds. 50 rd. AZ POST qual course under time from 3 to 25 yards. Min score to pass is 84%. That is the State's minimum passing score, several agencies require a higher score. 8 hours additional training per year and qual courses to maintain your handgun certification.

There are also patrol rifle shotgun classes.

ETA: Sorry, but I do not understand why "Use of Force" is so different from Civilian to LEO. It is the same standard for the use of Deadly Physical Force and should be understood by anyone that carries a firearm for self defense. JMHO

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

56 hours of handgun training and approximately 2000 rounds. 50 rd. AZ POST qual course under time from 3 to 25 yards. Min score to pass is 84%. That is the State's minimum passing score, several agencies require a higher score. 8 hours additional training per year and qual courses to maintain your handgun certification.

There are also patrol rifle shotgun classes.

ETA: Sorry, but I do not understand why "Use of Force" is so different from Civilian to LEO. It is the same standard for the use of Deadly Physical Force and should be understood by anyone that carries a firearm for self defense. JMHO

So when you guys say "84%" is that based on just hits on a silhouette target or are there scoring rings on the targets?

On the use of force, I agree a good shoot would be about the same for a CCW and a LEO. I was just trying to separate out straight firearms training from all the instruction LEOs get on how to serve a warrant or arrest people in a car at gun point- times when a LEO might use, or potentially use a firearm, that a CCW person wouldn't normally do.

I was mainly just interested in the mechanics of shooting not how much time is spent on legalities or procedural training.

[az doug]

The target has a scoring area, "center mass." Each of the 50 rounds fired is worth 5 points, 250 points possible. You receive 5 points for each center mass hit and 0 for each round that is not a center mass hit. (No points for shots to the arm, shoulder, lower abdomen, accidental head shots...) The State requires 210 to pass, although many agencies require 220 and at least one requires 230.