Service Accuracy?

[jackinfl]

Gentlemen,
How accurate are our service Carbines? Use a Colt 6920 or an LMT or whatever 16" carbine you want with the standard trigger. Use 100 yards as the distance and ammo like XM193...
What should we be able to expect from these guns 4-5 MOA?

Thanks,
Jack

[AR15barrels]

I saw the spec in one of the Army manuals, but I don't remember which one.
It's in there though under "general specifications".

[03humpalot]

Same here, IIRC its 4MOA. It has been sometime since i have looked through the service manual however.

[aloharover]

The manuals on the M16/M4 discuss accuracy as maximum effective range against a point target. 550m/500m respectively. I have never noticed anything regarding MOA in either the -10, -20, fm22-9, nor fm3-22.9
In the 22-9 series they do talk about the 4cm circle on the 25m target and how that relates to a 19" circle at 300m. But the 4cm circle is not ht MOA of the rifle, but rather the minimum standard to be met when zeroing.
Not saying this info isn't published, just not sure which service manual folks are talking about.

Pete

[nationwide]

MOBG (Minute of Bad Guy)

[rob_s]

Jack, are you looking for info on the best possible performance of the barrel and ammo, or factoring in optics and user?

[jackinfl]

I am trying to put a definable number on the accuracy of the Carbines. As to point out that these are not sniper rifles with sub MOA accuracy. What one can expect from a solid shooting position, with service grade ammunition out of service grade carbies.
I have seen guys put bipods on SBR's and when asked why the answer was to get that perfect shot when the BG presents it.

I think they are expecting Sniper accuracy out of service carbines. That's all, I was hoping for a MOA answer, and I thought I read in my COlt Manuals 4-5 MOA, but I will have to read them again...

Anyway ROb_S I want to discuss the game plan for next month....

Jack

[rob_s]

From my own experiences, 4-5 MOA with surplus ammo is about the best you can expect from your average M4. I was able to reliably hit the 8" steel with my 11.5" long, .625" diameter barrel Colt at 200 yards using the mag as a monopod with xm193, which would appear to be consistent with this.

I'm buying a Harris bipod, QD mount, 3-9x scope, and Larue SPR mount to try to test the accuracy potential of my carbines and various ammo. Not sure if that may help answer your question when it's done. I'm looking to see what each rifle/ammo combo is inherently capable of when taking the human out of the equation as much as possible.

I think that most people that put bipods on SBRs, or even M4s, are just building guns to take pictures of. Go over to TOS and take a look at their "picture thread" sometime. It's rather humorous.

[jackinfl]

Rob,
Sounds like a good test. Let me know when you get the gear and I will try it on my gun too.
Jack

[CMPM14NM]

4-5MOA is what I'd expect from an AK series rifle with military ammunition.

I have NEVER seen a Colt M4 carbine that wouldn't shoot 2.5 MOA with Greentip and under 2 MOA with better ammunition. I have seen hundreds of these rifles and I feel very confident in stating that the rifles are mechanically capable of 2 MOA with decent ammo and 2.5 with Greentip.

Greentip is great ammunition. It's just not super accurate---it's ultra reliable though.

I have had several commercial Colt 6920s and 6921s (14.5") and had the opportunity to bench test them. With an Aimpoint, everyone of these rifles would shoot USGI Greentip into under 5" at 200 yards (2.5 MOA). When these rifles were free-floated, used with a 4x optic, and fed MK262, they consistantly shot 2-3" (1-1.5 MOA) at 200 yards.

Out of the box, if a Colt M4 won't shoot 2-2.5 MOA with USGI ammunition, there is something majorly wrong.

I have a friend who had a Colt M4A1 with over 60K documented rounds that was key holing rounds into under 3 MOA with Greentip at 100 yards. They were still under 3 MOA but they were going through the target sideways.

Anything shooting 4-5 MOA should have been made by a drunk Communist...