What is the best way to measure accuracy/marksmanship...?

[P2000]

This may be of interest

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=82297

In a nutshell, if trying to determine the precision capabilities of your set up(ie. testing different ammo, seeing if that muzzle brake changed precision, seeing if rifle A is more precise than rifle B, ect), then I recommend:

1. Download the free version of On Target software, or buy the newer one. http://www.ontargetshooting.com/download1.html

2. When at the range, shoot at least 10 shot groups. Bring a camera, pen and ruler. The ruler should be in the photo.

3. Use ATC (either in MOA or inches) to determine which groups are the most precise.

4. Find and read Molon's posts.

[J.Boyette]

The best way I have found to test all aspects of what you are looking for is to do the following.

targets to use:

4 MOA with 1 MOA scoring rings 10, 9, 8, 7

Place them at each yard line you can shoot in equal distance.

Example:

You only have a 100yd range = 1 target every 20yds
You have a 300yd range = 1 target every 100yds

Things to do when shooting this practice drill. Have two shot call sheets with you at all times. Call the shot and record it on a shot caller sheet next to you. Use the other shot call sheet to record the bullet impact once down range and compare the two once back on the firing line. Check your DOPE per distance and see if you dialed on the correct adjustment. Get the best position you can, perform great trigger control and record if you pulled the round on the shot caller sheet next to you BEFORE taking the next shot.

Test:

Step 1: Fire 1 round per target and adjust your elevation knob for the correct setting to engage the next distance.

Step 2: Go down range and record on paper the MOA offset the bullet printed on the target. Using the other shot call sheet to record the bullet impact once down range and compare the two once back on the firing line.

Step 3: DO NOT MAKE ANY ADJUSTMENTS to your DOPE at until this drill is finished!!!!!!!!

example: do not record a click +/- for the next shot at the distance you just engaged. Let the rounds print as they will. If you record a +/- click or two you will not get a true DOPE reading in the 3 shot group.

Step 4 repeat steps 1, 2 & 3 for a total of three rounds.

Now you have three rounds in each target. The time it took you to walk the range and record each shot on paper, that let the rifle cool off between stages and let you clear your mind. Also gives you time to compare the two shot call sheets.

For the good groups prone:
If you are 1 MOA or better group per-distance your rifle AND YOU are performing as needed. If the group is not in the 10 ring, you have bad DOPE and need to adjust the knobs to the center of the 3 rnd shot group to have the correct point of aim / point of impact.

For the good group’s sitting sling supported:
Same as above except in the 2 MOA ring and you need to learn the hold, not dial the offset if any once the prone shot group is confirmed following this process.

For the good group’s kneeling sling supported:
Same as sitting except the 3 MOA ring

For the good group’s offhand sling supported:
Same as sitting and kneeling except the 4 MOA ring

When you use a barricade of any design, find the nearest position, prone, sitting, kneeling, offhand you are at and use the same standard of accuracy.

For the bad groups any position
The shot call log will tell you, what you did wrong. Now you know what to fix and work at if you are HONEST with yourself.

Lastly, when you can clean this COF within the standards of 1 MOA Prone, 2 MOA Sitting, 3 MOA kneeling & 4 MOA standing offhand drop the target size to .75 MOA and repeat.

Hope this helps.
John

[OMD]

First thing you should do is decide on what ammo/s you will be shooting to find out how precise the gun can shoot it, eliminating as many variables as possible, meaning from the bench, scoped. Then you can work on positions and drills and KNOW when your accuracy is improving. If you do this first you'll find your weaknesses much faster.

[Lawrence]

Thanks for the reply's a lot of good points have been made.

Trident's post mentioned shooting prone and why. Info such as this is what I was looking for.

Finished building my first precision type AR and am now looking for ways to test both myself and the rifle.

It's no fun if you only build it...

Time to go out and see how bad i suck.

Follow this link, some helpful info here - http://www.jarheadtop.com/Free_Chapters_Blue.htm

Will give you some excellent basics before you have rhe chance to get any bad marksmanship habits. Does not matter if it's iron sights or optics, in regards to this info.
Good luck & don't worry about the suck, everyone has been there or they are not telling you straight.

[billybob19606]

I'm new to the M4. Owned one for less than a month now (80rounds fired so far). I was shooting 6-7" groups with irons and an eotech (non magnified) from 205yards. Front was rested, but not the back.

I'm sure this isn't anything fantastic, but is it respectable at least?

Thank you very much

[Lawrence]

I'm new to the M4. Owned one for less than a month now (80rounds fired so far). I was shooting 6-7" groups with irons and an eotech (non magnified) from 205yards. Front was rested, but not the back.

I'm sure this isn't anything fantastic, but is it respectable at least?

Thank you very much

Consistant stock weld, sight alignment, & hold, i.e. a 6 0'clock hold works best for iron sights for me. Read Jim Owens free chpts. in the link I provided above. Take your time & pay attention to each and every shot like it could be your last one ever, if you screw up.
The SPR/AM rifles (18" bbls) contract rifles we build shoot under 2" @ 200 or they don't leave here. M4 RIS flavor..good luck

[Lawrence]

I'm new to the M4. Owned one for less than a month now (80rounds fired so far). I was shooting 6-7" groups with irons and an eotech (non magnified) from 205yards. Front was rested, but not the back.

I'm sure this isn't anything fantastic, but is it respectable at least?

Thank you very much

Just another note,
One of the funnest things is going to the range, & exp. with different ammo to find out what your rifle likes. Shoot what you are using & see if you improve. Try a box of Black Hills & see how it does, 1-9 twist bbl use 69 grainers, 1-7,1-8 twist bbl use 77 grainers. Hornady Match & Federal Gold M match makes some decent stuff also.
Guys that have been around a long time develope loads for a specific rifle that kick butt,,,then there is the reloading bug that can bite you..lol...best of luck..just have fun & practice.

[Iraqgunz]

I tend to look at it in caveman terms.

Accuracy= Did I just hit the target I was shooting at with results?

Marksmanship= Do I understand the various conditions that contribute to my ability to hit or cause me to miss a target? Am I able to shoot under a variety of conditions and positions and remain effective?

[Lawrence]

I tend to look at it in caveman terms.

Accuracy= Did I just hit the target I was shooting at with results?

Marksmanship= Do I understand the various conditions that contribute to my ability to hit or cause me to miss a target? Am I able to shoot under a variety of conditions and positions and remain effective?

For fun you should try a long range tactical match, am thinking you would enjoy!!. No dis-respect intended. A lot of guys that were on MU's are there having fun. I have had a few guys there make me feel like a caveman at times... - Great test for a good marksman and rifle combo & yes you can use a AR if you chuck the right size rocks.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I like the idea of accuracy and precision. Groups are fine, but what we really want to know is what is the size of a target you can hit with what kind of confidence.

I made this myself (In Power point, that is why it might be a bit off since I just did it by eye). A half inch circle with +1/4in concentric circles and some black bands for aiming. The idea I'm thinking of is you shoot at the ten targets and mark down what is the smallest circle the shot hole clips. Mark it on the chart at the top. You can then look at the distribution of the chart and say you have a 9/10 chance of hitting a certian size target, or a 50/50 (5/5) chance of hitting a larger size.

I wanted to get away from just pure groups to what is really important, the ability to hit a target on demand. You could measure it from prone and other positions for a better estimate of what you'd actually hit. Prone, sitting and supported kneeling I think are three highly common and usable positions for accurate fire.

Just and idea.