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Thread: What's this new way of holding the rifle?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty23 View Post
    Whatever works for each person when it comes to how they want to hold the rifle. Personally I never trained to grip the front of a rifle that way in military or as an LEO. But times change, if it works for folks then do it, if not don't, simple.

    As for resurrecting an old thread, I would have done the same thing. I'm new here but on other forums you get bitched at for starting a new thread on an old topic and mods would tell you don't ask me go search the old threads for an answer. Can't win for losing.
    Do you seriously have a picture of your rifle as your signature?
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  2. #102
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    What's this new way of holding the rifle?

    Since the thread has been revived, here's a good video with some explanation from Frank Proctor... Skip to 1:10 for the rifle portion.

    http://youtu.be/x_-RIwWXvrg
    Owner/ Operator, Trojan Tactical LLC. TROTAC.com

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty23 View Post
    Whatever works for each person when it comes to how they want to hold the rifle. Personally I never trained to grip the front of a rifle that way in military or as an LEO. But times change, if it works for folks then do it, if not don't, simple.
    I disagree with the "whatever works" train of thought.

    If it is for plinking on the range, sure, knock yourself out. If it is for duty use, one should strive to employ techniques that are proven to be beneficial/superior. If you were to adjust your stance/grip, it should be due to the following factors:

    -Mandated gear requiring a different grip; lasers, grenade launchers, bipods, flashlights, short rails etc
    -Physical limitations; injuries, build etc limiting a shooter
    -Awkward shooting positions precluding the use of the ideal technique

    I have see way to many people advocate a tight, mag-well'esque grip on the weapon, because it is comfortable to carry it that way, and they manage to get hits on the range when static against full silhouette targets.

    When we start firing more rapidly, do target transitions, movement etc poor technique and poor recoil control becomes more apparent in the ones who follow the "whatever works" methodology.

    YMMV
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  4. #104
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    The first time I saw the hand forward technique was in 1981, so I would not says it's new. I think it feels more natural when moving with the rifle or carbine. I think it's a good technique for quickly engaging multiple targets. Any movement of the support hand with it placed out forward on the handguard moves the front sight considerably less than with the support hand placed at the magazine well.

    That's my 2 cents and with inflation that does not go too far nowadays.
    Last edited by T2C; 02-15-13 at 12:28.
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  5. #105
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    Re: What's this new way of holding the rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic1 View Post
    I disagree with the "whatever works" train of thought.

    If it is for plinking on the range, sure, knock yourself out. If it is for duty use, one should strive to employ techniques that are proven to be beneficial/superior. If you were to adjust your stance/grip, it should be due to the following factors:

    -Mandated gear requiring a different grip; lasers, grenade launchers, bipods, flashlights, short rails etc
    -Physical limitations; injuries, build etc limiting a shooter
    -Awkward shooting positions precluding the use of the ideal technique

    I have see way to many people advocate a tight, mag-well'esque grip on the weapon, because it is comfortable to carry it that way, and they manage to get hits on the range when static against full silhouette targets.

    When we start firing more rapidly, do target transitions, movement etc poor technique and poor recoil control becomes more apparent in the ones who follow the "whatever works" methodology.

    YMMV
    I agree.

    In the newish USAF qualification course of fire, one portion is two 3 rd bursts. The first time I qual'd using the new COF they told my group "aim at the bottom of the paper, recoil will push it up and over the top if you don't." People who used a magwell grip had this problem and the advice was sound. For me and one other, who gripped as far forward as possible for recoil control, had smallish groups at the bottom of the paper.
    Last edited by Koshinn; 02-15-13 at 05:42.
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by dookie1481 View Post
    Do you seriously have a picture of your rifle as your signature?
    ...says the guy with a Frank Zappa quote in his sig.

    As far as reviving this thread: The original question has been hashed out and answered. It's not a "new" way of holding the rifle. That was the OP question, and it's been answered. As for LAV...a quick look at Youtube could have answered (at least superficially) that question.

    And "using what works for you" only really works after you've trained hard enough to understand what "works" means. There are plenty of shooters whose bad habits "work" for them.
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  7. #107
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    In NAM we didn't use the Scorpion method of holding the rifle... and it cost us the war!
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  8. #108
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    Re: What's this new way of holding the rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by badmuther View Post
    I'm curious how you are doing this as a thumb over grip on an AK completely covers the sights.
    I use an Ultimak railed gas tube with a PA micro red dot on a 1/4 riser mount. I am able to have a thumb over grip with no obstruction.

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    In NAM we didn't use the Scorpion method of holding the rifle... and it cost us the war!
    Was there a point to that?

    Are you saying that proper shooting technique is not relevant?

    I understand that you don't appreciate all the new gadgets or fancy techniques, but it would really help the discussion along if you provided some context for your contrarian views, rather than just spouting off meaningless commentary. 3 recent topics that I've seen....

    And the point isn't really if Costa exaggerates his support arm position or not, it's wether or not there is value in gripping the gun towards the muzzle or if gripping it further back towards the mag well works just as well.
    It's not about surviving, it's about winning!

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic1 View Post
    it's wether or not there is value in gripping the gun towards the muzzle or if gripping it further back towards the mag well works just as well.
    I think there's some merit to a more forward grip for "driving" the gun in short, rapid engagements.

    I can shoot while moving just as fast (as far as I can perceive as the shooter) with an 11.5" gun with a standard 7" handguard if the sucker isn't overgassed and bouncing me off target.

    I never go overboard with the Scorpion even if I have a rifle length rail... but If there's a lot of handguard, I'll grab more length for sure!

    My fighting guns are shorter... so I don't want to grow muscle memory on the Scorpion.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

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