ACOG as a SHTF optic?

[Armati]

Does anyone have any experience shooting offset optics from difficult shooting positions like 'crazy wall', bent over prone shooting under a car, or 'curb prone'?

[Singlestack Wonder]

Does anyone have any experience shooting offset optics from difficult shooting positions like 'crazy wall', bent over prone shooting under a car, or 'curb prone'?

Yes in 3-gun. Sometimes the offset RDS presents a challenge for unconventional positions but practicing at those positions certainly helps.

[ryanschmidt65]

I like the fact that Acogs never have batteries to lose

[Failure2Stop]

Does anyone have any experience shooting offset optics from difficult shooting positions like 'crazy wall', bent over prone shooting under a car, or 'curb prone'?

Yes. A few of the reasons I prefer a low powered variable.
Same with support side shooting.

I like the fact that Acogs never have batteries to lose

And I like the fact that decent variables have a reticle that can be used without illumination and when illum is used it can be easily adjusted to the necessary level.

[rob_s]

Unconventional, "real world" (regardless of whether your world is fighting or competing) applications are always the true test of any setup. We ran a stage last year that put a wall with a gap low enough that you could NOT shoot under it with the gun held vertically, and then we put a 90* wall to that such that you couldn't easily prone out the way you'd want to. Showed a lot of holes in a lot of setups but also in a lot of techniques.

In that application if you wanted to use your offset RDS you would have likely been screwed.

Unfortunately on the competition side most match directors and course designers work to their own strengths and gear, so if you have a guy with an offset RDS he's unlikely to design a stage that challenges that setup.

[Armati]

Thanks guys. That is pretty much what I thought. Offset RDS seem great as long as you have the luxury of staying on your feet.

[Just a Jarhead]

In that application if you wanted to use your offset RDS you would have likely been screwed.

I wouldn’t exactly say screwed, my ACOG has back up irons. And anyone running a light other than at 12:00 could encounter a similar situation. They better instinctively drop to the side the light is not on or the added dimension and bulk of the light and mount could prevent aiming through this small gap you describe.

Same with support side shooting.

Transitioning to the weak side and using your non-dominant eye (both eyes open) is fairly easy using a RDS with just a little practice.

Bottom line is this thread was inquiring about a shtf weapon. NOt a home defense weapon. We all agree that is a subjective term. To me it means you have 1 primary weapon, a “do-all” weapon as is much as is possible. Long shots to ID as best as possible with a 4x (or better), protect the perimeter (could be the perimeter of a large property or ranch), reconnaissance, CQB. That’s why I like my offset RDS set-up. It’s as close to general purpose, do-all weapon as I can think of. That is what a shtf weapon means to me. Its not perfect. I think we established that there is no perfect set-up early on. Everything is a compromise. To me we haven’t experienced a shtf situation, yet.

ETA: Think TEOTWAWKI, total economic collapse, EMP, Civil War, massive country wide civil unrest, general breakdown of society, major terrorist attack (dirty bombs, several cities nuked) most police leave their post to go home and protect their familes etc. That to me is shtf. Again I understand shtf it is subjective to each of us.

[jimmyp]

total end of the world, no lights, no gas, no running water, no food, mob violence, crazies running the streets raping, burning, and pillaging etc. a few good friends, a good AK or 3 a few thousand rounds hopefully an Aimpoint in a good mount on the AK and some extra batteries would last about as long as I would last.

[Failure2Stop]

Transitioning to the weak side and using your non-dominant eye (both eyes open) is fairly easy using a RDS with just a little practice.

I have done it. I first started playing with offset MRDs about 4 years ago. It is plausible, I'm not arguing that (just as piggybacked MRDs are viable, just not optimal), but support side shooting with a canted MRD has issues with LOS/boreline/trajectory that hampers precision unless you roll the gun to orient the MRD as is done with the strong side.

Really, in my opinion, sticking an MRD to a gun with a 4x or less primary optic is a sign that the illmination is lacking. Magnification is not the issue with ACOGs, the sorry ass reticle lighting is. I have shot "CQB" distance just as fast as with an EoTech (as well as other shooters). That doesn't make the Cog a CQB optic, just an illustration that low magnification is still workable without having to resort to another optic. If using two optics, I would rather get th most out of what I am carrying. Most 2.5-10x optics have reticles that are suited for long-range precision, and have severe issues at ranges closer than 50m in dynamic employment, and therefore greatly benefit from an offset MRD. Once again, my opinion on my experience based on my use. If you are happy with your setup, good, as long as it is based on personal experience and testing. I have several good friends that use an ACOG/MRD combination to good effect, but I also have good friends that use a 10x/MRD to excellent effect (at the expense of higher weight and reduced primary optic durability).

Everything is a compromise.

Exactly.
It all depends on what and how you compromise.
What some units issue, or issue to fix issues with other issued gear, is irrelevant if it doesn't meet the needs of the individual that is free to make their own decisions, just like our opinions.

[rob_s]

Agree with F2S. The ACOG/RDS system has too much overlap in function and not enough top-end. Much rather have the 3x compact and train to deal with shortcomings. If I was to use an offset RDS I'd want a lot more top end out of the magnified optic, something like 8x+.

If we're defining shtf as total societal meltdown I'll take my 3x compact ACOG as it's light, I'm very familiar with it, and it can be made to work for me in a wide range of potential situations all without batteries.