ACOG as a SHTF optic?

[elchupanibre]

I looked at Elkans also. Once again, I have no real experience with most of the optics, but from reading reviews they dont appear to better then Acogs, cost a lot more though.

[elchupanibre]

I apologize for spelling, most of the typing is done on the phone. Back to Acog, the reason I picked it in the first place-it does not require batteries, which is a huge plus. Simple to use, so someone with a general knowledgde of AR platform but no knowledge of electronic based optics can pick it up and use it (to a certain degree of course) Requires no switching from one optic to another, no time to swing magnifier in / out of the way, not too heavy as well.

[docsherm]

Thanks, i have. I researched different reticles until my eyes started bleeding. Iwanted to know why he thinks green horseshoe is better than a red chevron, i was actually goingnto go with a red chevron.

It is easier for the human eye to pick out the color green than red or amber. Because of that it is easier to see in low light and it is faster when doing reflex shooting.

[docsherm]

The Elcan is big, bulky and we have had most the ones issued break. It is also not worth the money. If you are going to spend that kind of money buy a S&B Short Dot.

[lifebreath]

First, I have very limited AR experience, but am learning ...

I have a TR24 and a TA31H. I bought the TR24 first because I thought I needed the 1X/big green triangle for close up and the 3-4x for further out. After shooting a few hundred rounds through both, I am surprised by my conclusion: I'd take the TA31H over the TR24 hands down every day.

The glass is brighter in my ACOG than the Accupoint and everything is crisper. The Accupoint is heavier and the weight is further out front. The only downside is the shorter eye relief with the ACOG. For a little more ER, you could go with the TA33 and sacrifice a little magnification. Also, the tritium is a little brighter at night in the TR24.

I looked through both the chevrons and the horseshoes, and I would go for the horseshoe reticle in either green or red, since it has greater "mass" to draw the eye quickly for BAC, yet it still retains precision aiming with the 2 moa dot and thin post for 300-600m. It's also got built-in ranging for 200m - 600m.

The TR24 is very hard to hold over due to the thickness of the "post." However, it'd still pretty easy to shoot for anything point blank range.

I'm surprised at how easy BAC has been to learn and how quickly I can acquire close targets with the TA31H. For me, the TA31H does everything the TR24 does but better, and I feel more confident about the ACOG ruggedness.

My thoughts could change with more use, but these are my initial impressions. YMMV.

[Just a Jarhead]

OP, let me know if you still want picks of my set-up with offset mount and I'll be happy to get them for you. The bottom line is results and what works for you. That's why they still make chocolate and vanilla ice cream.

I have 2 questions for Rob and Docsherm.

1). Have you ever tried this setup? (I'm not talking about a piggy backed RMR on top the ACOG because I agree that is god awful) I'm talking with the red dot mounted way upfront by the FSB on a decent close to the boreline 45 degree mount?

2). If you had to choose an optic for CQB and only CQB would it be a TA33 or redot? I still think most people would agree that a redot is far superior for CQB and much preferred first choice which is why I went with the set-up I did. I get the best of both worlds. First time I tried my buddies rifle I was surprised how quick and easy it was to acquire targets and how sweet it was!

I will admit to 2 negatives to my setup, you have an optic hanging off of it which isn't perfect against snags and bangs but it really isn't that bad and doesn't stick out that much and if you have to change shoulders you'd have to use the built in back-up irons on the TA01 which isn't the best situation, or use your non-dominant eye for the redot, either will suffice if you practice with them. But I still like it, the combined weight of the ACOG and small light RMR is only a few ounces more than a TA33. I'm not saying the TA33 isn't an excellent choice as well but so do I think is this offset set-up albeit a little more expensive.

[elchupanibre]

Jarhead, yes, i would like to see some pics. I am also interested in response to a part 2 of your question.

[rob_s]

I have 2 questions for Rob and Docsherm.

1). Have you ever tried this setup? (I'm not talking about a piggy backed RMR on top the ACOG because I agree that is god awful) I'm talking with the red dot mounted way upfront by the FSB on a decent close to the boreline 45 degree mount?

Specifically as you describe, no. I have played with other people's rifles, typically intended for 3-gun, with offset RDS of one sort or another. None were way out front like you describe either because they were tube-style and you'd play hell finding the dot if they were way out there.

2). If you had to choose an optic for CQB and only CQB would it be a TA33 or redot? I still think most people would agree that a redot is far superior for CQB and much preferred which is why I went with the set-up I did. First time I tried my buddies rifle I was surprised how quick and easy it was to acquire targets and how sweet it was!

For CQB only I'd take a red dot. However, I used the TA33 rather successfully for quite some time in matches that were primarily close-range. I understand that matches are not combat, but they are all I have to weigh this against. I found that provided I was attending regularly and keeping up with the familiarity I gave up very little to the RDS.

I will admit to 2 negatives to my setup, you have an optic hanging off of it which isn't perfect against snags and bangs but it really isn't that bad and doesn't stick out that much and if you have to change shoulders you'd have to use the built in back-up irons on the TA01 which isn't the best situation, or use your non-dominant eye for the redot, either but will suffice if you practice with them. But I still like it, the combined weight of the ACOG and small light RMR is only a few ounces more than a TA33.

My concern with these offset setups are multi.

1. Cost. Obviously you're paying for two optics instead of one. Do it with a Short Dot and a T-1 and you're really up there, not to mention mounts.
2. Weight. It goes without saying that two optics weighs more than either optic alone.
3. Flexibility. I haven't spent enough time with them in more dynamic scenarios, but I wonder what happens when shooting with the offset sight around barricades and cover, over top of things, around the support side (lateral transitions or non), under things, various unconventional positions (supine, brokeback, and shit that doesn't have a name). Again, haven't done enough training with them, but these are my concerns just looking at them.

I'm looking forward to seeing pics of your setup though. Do you use this operationally or is this only on your personal firearm? Any issues going from issued setup to home setup and back again?

[Just a Jarhead]

This is a Colt 16" HBAR with some mods for a shtf weapon . Hope the pics help OP. And Rob I've been out of the Marine Corps for awhile I'm a civilian now and this is just a personal weapon but as I said I have a buddy still in Force Recon and he uses this set-up on his Noveske.

[elchupanibre]

Nice! In picture # 4 it does look like it sticks out quite a bit. Just curious, does it balance better being closer to the front?