.40S&W/.45 acp dual use recommendations

[GJM]

I am out at our remote cabin in Alaska today, and saw the first Grizzly bear of the season. That means it is .44 and 870/Guide Gun time out in the bush. My question is around town, where bears and moose are less likely to be a problem, and you have a .40 or .45 that needs to fill a dual purpose niche for possible two and four legged threats.

In .40, where you would like the best compromise between performance on a softer target, but also the ability to penetrate an animal's skull, would the best choice be the 180 HST, 180 bonded Ranger, the DPX load or something else? Same question for .45, between the 230 HST, 230 or 230+P Ranger T or DPX 185 +P?

[DocGKR]

.40 180 gr or .45 230 gr +P--a bonded load like Fed Tactical, Win Ranger Bonded, or Speer Gold Dot wouldn't hurt...

[Alaskapopo]

I am out at our remote cabin in Alaska today, and saw the first Grizzly bear of the season. That means it is .44 and 870/Guide Gun time out in the bush. My question is around town, where bears and moose are less likely to be a problem, and you have a .40 or .45 that needs to fill a dual purpose niche for possible two and four legged threats.

In .40, where you would like the best compromise between performance on a softer target, but also the ability to penetrate an animal's skull, would the best choice be the 180 HST, 180 bonded Ranger, the DPX load or something else? Same question for .45, between the 230 HST, 230 or 230+P Ranger T or DPX 185 +P?

A friend of mine in the Troopers shot some bear skulls with the 40sw and 357 sig. Only the FMJ rounds in the .40sw would penetrate the skulls he used for the tests. The 357 sig did well too. The 180 grain JHP's in the 40sw he tested did not penetrate the skulls.
Pat

[DeltaKilo]

.40 180 gr or .45 230 gr +P--a bonded load like Fed Tactical, Win Ranger Bonded, or Speer Gold Dot wouldn't hurt...

I'm rather surprised that the DPX didn't make the cut.

[KhanRad]

A friend of mine in the Troopers shot some bear skulls with the 40sw and 357 sig. Only the FMJ rounds in the .40sw would penetrate the skulls he used for the tests. The 357 sig did well too. The 180 grain JHP's in the 40sw he tested did not penetrate the skulls.
Pat

Did he try the 165gr Gold Dot at 1150fps? Seems like higher velocity loads tend to do better at "biting" into hard and rounded surfaces like a skull.

[Jake'sDad]

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=214

If you were stuck with a .45 ACP for large animal defense in Alaska, the Buffalo Bore 255 grain flat nose hard cast at 960 fps would be my choice. I wouldn't use any expanding bullet.

12"-13" of penetration is great for people, but on a big bear, depending on where you hit him, he might not even notice it. If I recall correctly, that 255 HCFN does 20"+ in gel. Might give you a better chance if a body shot is all you get.

As is often said, a pistol is a lousy choice for big bear defense. But I understand wanting to have it, and I always carry one in bear country as well, usually a .44 mag or .45 Colt, either with hard cast lead bullets. I've never had to use it, and I hope like hell I never do, as I realize the odds aren't in my favor.

[DocGKR]

You need mass for penetration in larger animals...

[GJM]

Sure, a .44 magnum with hard cast bullets like the Garrett Defender load designed for the 329 is what I carry in the field, and while I spent the day with my 329 and short 870 loaded with Brenneke slugs, my question is for town where animals are less likely but possible as a threat.

Doc, can you please elaborate on the comment about mass? An earlier post mentioned the .357 Sig doing well in tests on bear skulls, which would seem to argue for velocity. If that were the case, this may be one of the few places the .357 Sig makes sense? If so, thoughts on the 125 grain DPX load or Ranger 125 grain bonded load?

[eightmillimeter]

A friend of mine in the Troopers shot some bear skulls with the 40sw and 357 sig. Only the FMJ rounds in the .40sw would penetrate the skulls he used for the tests. The 357 sig did well too. The 180 grain JHP's in the 40sw he tested did not penetrate the skulls.
Pat

The nice thing about 40 FMJ and critters is the flat point, flat point bullets tend to penetrate in a straight line, which helps.

[Alaskapopo]

Sure, a .44 magnum with hard cast bullets like the Garrett Defender load designed for the 329 is what I carry in the field, and while I spent the day with my 329 and short 870 loaded with Brenneke slugs, my question is for town where animals are less likely but possible as a threat.

Doc, can you please elaborate on the comment about mass? An earlier post mentioned the .357 Sig doing well in tests on bear skulls, which would seem to argue for velocity. If that were the case, this may be one of the few places the .357 Sig makes sense? If so, thoughts on the 125 grain DPX load or Ranger 125 grain bonded load?

He was a big .357 sig fan. I sold him my last pistol in that caliber. His take on things was that all pistols were weak and ineffective against bears and that your only chance was to poke a hole in the CNS system and you needed penetration to do that. He felt that having a light weight auto that held lots of bullets gave him a better chance than a high recoiling revolver. We disagreed but his idea did have merit.
Pat