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Thread: Are 14.5" Middys all sorted out?

  1. #11
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    I have ~1100+ rounds of almost all Wolf & Brown Bear through two different BCM 14.5" midlengths and other than a couple of stuck cases from some suspect Wolf I haven't had a problem with either of them. Lube and clean chambers work wonders.

    I was probably one of the biggest skeptics of the 14.5" midlength but now I'm pretty sold, even though I still wouldn't recommend one as an only/first AR.

    I would not, however, say that they are "all" sorted out simply because I can't speak to all of them. I'd vouch for the BCM, Noveske (and derivatives built with Noveske barrels like the Next Generation Arms), Daniel Defense, and Centurion (basing the last one on reputation alone as I don't have any direct experience with their 14.5" mid-length barrels).
    Last edited by rob_s; 05-09-11 at 22:42.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Undocumented Worker View Post
    Why does the 14.5" middy even exist? As far as I can tell, the carbine gas system was designed specifically for the 14.5" barrel.

    The Mid Length gas system was designed for civilian 16" barrels, so why are people trying to use this gas system on 14.5" barrels.
    Actually, the carbine length gas system was designed for the CAR-15 SMG/"Survival Rifle"/"Commando"/XM177/XM177E1/XM177E2 which all had 10"-11.5" barrels.

    The earliest prototype "carbine" model ARs had 16" barrels with what appear to be approximate mid/intermediate length gas systems (fig. 166, "The Black Rifle", Stevens & Ezell).

    The first OFFICIAL carbine, model 605 (fig. 168, ibid), had a 15" barrel with a rifle length gas system. However, "only a handful" were ever produced.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM Engineer View Post
    Actually, the carbine length gas system was designed for the CAR-15 SMG/"Survival Rifle"/"Commando"/XM177/XM177E1/XM177E2 which all had 10"-11.5" barrels.

    The earliest prototype "carbine" model ARs had 16" barrels with what appear to be approximate mid/intermediate length gas systems (fig. 166, "The Black Rifle", Stevens & Ezell).

    The first OFFICIAL carbine, model 605 (fig. 168, ibid), had a 15" barrel with a rifle length gas system. However, "only a handful" were ever produced.
    There were tons of 605s if you include the submodels A and B. They had rifle length systems but the gas ports were drilled out to max size.

    XM177s were 10-11.6 barrels with the carbine length system but they had a 3.5" or 4.5" moderator and the smaller gas port.

    Colt was also working on the M16A1 Carbine (never adopted by anyone model 650) with the 14.5 barrel about the time the E2 went into production.

    Im not arguing anything, just pointing out some of the smaller details. 200ms dwell time is well known as optimal for the AR-15 platform, 14.5" with carbine system gets that, as does 16" with midlength, and 20" with rifle.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZRH View Post
    There were tons of 605s if you include the submodels A and B. They had rifle length systems but the gas ports were drilled out to max size.

    XM177s were 10-11.6 barrels with the carbine length system but they had a 3.5" or 4.5" moderator and the smaller gas port.

    Colt was also working on the M16A1 Carbine (never adopted by anyone model 650) with the 14.5 barrel about the time the E2 went into production.

    Im not arguing anything, just pointing out some of the smaller details. 200ms dwell time is well known as optimal for the AR-15 platform, 14.5" with carbine system gets that, as does 16" with midlength, and 20" with rifle.
    Absolutely. I've recently gone 100% SBR for my ARs, so it's all carbine gas system for me until I decide to build a SPR-type gun. And I stand corrected on the 605s.
    Last edited by RAM Engineer; 05-09-11 at 23:24.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    If you want to shoot bad ammo, don't get a 14.5 middy. Steel cased, under powered doo doo sometimes doesn't run in the guns.

    Good 223 or 5.56 ammo and nothing heavier than an H buffer and you'll be pleased.
    I run an H2 in mine and I'm pleased, but then again I almost exclusively use XM855 and .223 TAP.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDiver06 View Post
    I run an H2 in mine and I'm pleased, but then again I almost exclusively use XM855 and .223 TAP.
    How does the H2 compare to the H in your 14.5 middy?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
    How does the H2 compare to the H in your 14.5 middy?
    I can't say. I haven’t tried an H buffer in it.
    I've gone from a carbine, to a p.o.s. st-t2, to a colt H2. Comparing the carbine to H2... the difference was noticeable. The carbine was definitely a sharper impulse while the H2 feels like pillow.
    Hell, just dry cycling the action you can tell the bolt slams home with less reverb when it hits the barrel extension.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
    How does the H2 compare to the H in your 14.5 middy?
    Appreciably softer recoil, stays on target better. I've just shot an MNQ during EAG class with one shot dropped; I truly believe that gun being more controllable was a big part of if. Worth mentioning is that one of my 14.5s didn't lock the bolt on H2 buffer a couple of tines but another one has been 100%.

    Re crappy ammo: I've had my 14.5 middy since only one vendor was offering those. Mine was a 16 inch BCM cut down to 14.5. To the best of my knowledge, gas ports on 16 and 14.5 BCMs are the same so mine is representative of their current setup. When I got mine done, I set out to test reliability; I even asked on this site what constitutes weak ammo. I then went and purchased a bunch of Wolf, UMC, PMC and other stuff and shot it without issues in 22 degrees weather. Prior to that, I shot almost two cases of Wolf over two days in Magpul class in 100 degree weather; all I had was one stuck empty case.
    While this is individual sample size of two, based on cumulative reports and what I see around, I'd say they are pretty much sorted out, with anecdotal evidence of increased bolt longevity and subjective reports of softer feel.
    Last edited by YVK; 05-10-11 at 01:25.

  9. #19
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    No issues at all with two BCM 14.5 middies and about 4,000 rounds of silver and brown bear. Lube it and run an H buffer. H2 buffer shot very soft but I like the slightly more robust cycling of the H buffer.

  10. #20
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    Double post
    Last edited by msstate56; 05-10-11 at 03:17. Reason: Double post

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