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Thread: Are 14.5" Middys all sorted out?

  1. #21
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    I wonder how a 14.5" middy would run under filthy sandy conditions? Rifle designs over the years tells us that overgassed = good when sandy to overcome the increased friction of a dirty gun. But its also conundrum where overgassed carbines have harder extraction leading to decrease reliability.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    I wonder how a 14.5" middy would run under filthy sandy conditions? Rifle designs over the years tells us that overgassed = good when sandy to overcome the increased friction of a dirty gun. But its also conundrum where overgassed carbines have harder extraction leading to decrease reliability.
    Careful, I've suggested this before and nearly got myself lynched.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    I wonder how a 14.5" middy would run under filthy sandy conditions? Rifle designs over the years tells us that overgassed = good when sandy to overcome the increased friction of a dirty gun. But its also conundrum where overgassed carbines have harder extraction leading to decrease reliability.
    I wouldn't know since I run a FailZero BCG in my 14.5" BCM middy.

    In all seriousness, I think that a quality coated BCG makes a lot of sense in 14.5" middies. I went from reliably locking back using an H buffer with my CMT FA BCG, to being able to run a buffer that is heavier than an H3 (7.0 oz, with the guts of an H2 and a SS buffer body) AND a Springco Blue buffer spring....and still lock back on empty using tula and wolf. The reduced friction by coatings such as FZ, IonBond, hard chrome, etc. is noticeable and welcome.

    If you used a coated BCG and only used an H buffer, I think that any reliability ceded to the shorter dwell time would be regained and then some.
    Last edited by BufordTJustice; 05-10-11 at 05:46.

  4. #24
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    I don't know about sand, but I've had mine filthy from bear ammo and it still throws empty about 8 feet. I've never felt it get sluggish using an H buffer and mil spec spring. With an H2 buffer and an extra power spring, I could get consistent failures to lock on empty. I tossed those two items quickly. Can I get it to fail, probably, but enough crap to make it choke would most likely stop a 16" middy as well.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    I wonder how a 14.5" middy would run under filthy sandy conditions? Rifle designs over the years tells us that overgassed = good when sandy to overcome the increased friction of a dirty gun. But its also conundrum where overgassed carbines have harder extraction leading to decrease reliability.
    The extraction issues related to being overgassed have more to do with timing than dirt. If the bolt unlocks before the bore pressure decreases enough for the brass case to shrink back to its original size (usually when the bullet exits the muzzle) it doesn't really matter if the chamber is polished, the extractor won't be able to pull it out before it slides over the rim or tears it off.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate56 View Post
    I don't know about sand, but I've had mine filthy from bear ammo and it still throws empty about 8 feet. I've never felt it get sluggish using an H buffer and mil spec spring. With an H2 buffer and an extra power spring, I could get consistent failures to lock on empty. I tossed those two items quickly. Can I get it to fail, probably, but enough crap to make it choke would most likely stop a 16" middy as well.
    I believe he was comparing gas system lengths, not barrel lengths. At least that was the context of my reply.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    I believe he was comparing gas system lengths, not barrel lengths. At least that was the context of my reply.
    Yes, I was comparing the benefits of a carbine gas system on a 14.5" vs the benefits of a 14.5" middy.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZRH View Post
    The extraction issues related to being overgassed have more to do with timing than dirt. If the bolt unlocks before the bore pressure decreases enough for the brass case to shrink back to its original size (usually when the bullet exits the muzzle) it doesn't really matter if the chamber is polished, the extractor won't be able to pull it out before it slides over the rim or tears it off.
    Thats not what I was saying at all. Im saying a carbine gas system on 14.5" at higher pressure is going to have a higher BCG velocity thus it might be less susceptible to a stoppage when filthy and sandy but the downside is that the bolt unlocks sooner resulting in harsher extraction. Nothing to do with the chamber being dirty just pointing out a possible upside vs downside.

    Compare this to a 14.5" middy with lower pressures where slower bolt velocity MIGHT make it more susceptible to stoppage when used in filthy/sandy conditions but has a very smooth delayed extraction.
    Last edited by vicious_cb; 05-10-11 at 07:01.

  8. #28
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    After shooting a 14.5 for the first time Saturday I am sold and getting my bcm cut by Adco and a perm'd muzzle device. Has anybody experimented with a lighter bcg and heavier buffer H3? or is moving mass, moving mass? I would like the ability to reliably shoot brown bear, silver bear, wolf etc. and swap a heavier buffer in if needed for 5.56 loads. Or is an m16 carrier fine with a c or h buffer with brown and silver etc.? Is BCM gas ports the same for 16 and 14.5 ?

    http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sho...roduct_id=1010

    http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/JP-Lo...i-p/jpbc-3.htm
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caeser25 View Post
    After shooting a 14.5 for the first time Saturday I am sold and getting my bcm cut by Adco and a perm'd muzzle device. Has anybody experimented with a lighter bcg and heavier buffer H3? or is moving mass, moving mass? I would like the ability to reliably shoot brown bear, silver bear, wolf etc. and swap a heavier buffer in if needed for 5.56 loads. Or is an m16 carrier fine with a c or h buffer with brown and silver etc.? Is BCM gas ports the same for 16 and 14.5 ?

    http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sho...roduct_id=1010

    http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/JP-Lo...i-p/jpbc-3.htm
    Do you feel that you're reached the limitation of your gun as-is and have a specific goal in changing it? If so, is there something you hope to gain by using an un-tested combination of buffer and carrier?

    This site is full of guys like me that are shooting 14.5" mid-length guns with Wolf & Brown Bear without issue when using an M16 carrier and an H buffer and GI spring. If you want to cycle that ammo my suggestion would be to stick with a known-good combination until you have a perceived advantage or gain in fiddling with it.

  10. #30
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    I have a Mid-length BCM 14.5. I currently run an H2 buffer, as I usual have access to quality ammo. However I always carry a carbine buffer in my rifle pack. When I switch to Tula, Wolf or BB I will have the occasional short stroke. If I'm going to shoot this ammo exclusively I'll put the Car. buffer in.

    TC
    Last edited by The_Count; 05-10-11 at 09:35.

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