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Thread: NFA Trust Help

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas View Post
    This is the question I am asking myself. People that bring up using a lawyer do not mention the things that can go wrong by doing it yourself. Is this merely a case of thinking, I am not a lawyer so there is increased chances of it going pear shaped? Or does anyone actually have first hand experience of an illegal/incorrect trust coming back to haunt someone?

    I would agree that anyone using any kind of software to make a trust should be aware of their local laws first.
    In the state of Louisiana, a trust is invalid if it doesn't have two witnesses. Aside from that, I'm not sure what a judge would deem invalid about a boiler plate trust. As mentioned above, check your state laws regarding living trusts.

    The only other area to be careful is succession. This is the phrase I used...
    "For the purpose of class III, NFA registered items, if the trustee or successor trustee(s) is unable or unwilling to accept the property or live in a City, State where Class III items are in violation of State law, successor trusttee will be responsible to notify the BATFE and dispose, destroy or legally transfer such items as presicribed by the NFA.

    Trustee and all successor trustee's are responsible for adherence to all NFA, Title II guidelines of ownership, maintenance, use and transfer regulations regarding Class III items."

    My disclosure is, I'm not an attorney and this was not written by an attorney and may not be legal in your state or in a court of law. But, if you like it, feel free to use it.

  2. #22
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    I've been reading on http://www.jacksonvillelawyer.pro/la...y-1315473.html about gun trusts. One of the things that they say can go wrong is:
    "The ATF does not understand the concept of a trust being created in one state and used in another state. If you only had a settlors signature and then moved to a state like Florida where two witnesses were required, the ATF would not recognize your trust as valid. Our Copyrighted Gun Trust will be recognized as valid for purchases of additional NFA Firearms in any state where the purchase of those firearms is legal except Maine, which has a strange gun law which requires that a trust be formed in that state to be an eligible purchaser of firearms."

  3. #23
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    One of the things that really set me toward doing it myself was the replies to threads that guntrustlawyer posted. He was generous in his posts, but did not make a strong argument, in my personal opinion, as to why I should pay him vs using Quicken Willmaker.

    One point that I have seen many times seems very suspect.
    To make the decision now to not give your beneficiaries the option of enjoying or owning these firearms seems a shame but its better than your successor trustee and beneficiaries going to jail or getting fined for an improper transfer or possession of the firearms.
    Can someone explain how I can do something that will make you liable? I don't see anywhere that the successor trustee or beneficiaries have to sign.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donkey Hunter View Post
    Can someone explain how I can do something that will make you liable? I don't see anywhere that the successor trustee or beneficiaries have to sign.
    Re-read the NFA act on ownership/possission of Class III firearms. Now, imagine a situation where your early (or late) demise could pass a SBR through your trust to someone who is inelligible. They never planned on owning an SBR, but now they do. They're immediately in violation and if caught, could be fined and penalized. Odds of that happening, slim. But why chance it? Hence, my insertion of successor's responsibilities.

    At the ATF.gov website, there is a letter addressing estate transfers of Class III items. The bene's are given a reasonable amount of time to complete a transfer or disposal of said items. This does not address trust succession, but I assume equal time would be given before beneficiaries got into trouble.

    You are now experiencing the reason people seek out professionals/specialist in their respective fields of service. My advice, read your documents and make logical additions to a boiler plate document. Good luck.
    Last edited by amac; 05-13-11 at 08:11.

  5. #25
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    So does anyone actually have a quicken trust? I have a couple specific questions.

  6. #26
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    so no one has a quicken trust?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliberClark View Post
    so no one has a quicken trust?
    It's what I plan to use but that does not help you know. What are the specific questions that you have? Post them, somebody might be able to answer.

  8. #28
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    I have a Quicken trust and was pretty simple to set up, but I have a question about the naming of the trust/grantor...

    If my legal name is "Johnathan Browning Smith", and I use my full legal name in Quicken for the "grantor", then the trust will be named "Johnathan Browning Smith Revocable Living Trust". (I have a long name, no the above is not my name, but I don't know how I would fit all of this when I engrave)

    Questions:

    1) Do I have to use my full legal name for the trust to be valid? Or can I use "John Smith" or "John B. Smith"?

    2) If I do have to use my full legal name, can I abbreviate it when I engrave a lower to JBS Revocable Living Trust? Is there any additional abbreviation that I can use?

    3) I have heard of people naming their trust something like "Johnathan Browning Smith NFA TRUST". How would you change the name of your trust to "NFA Trust" to shorten it up even more?

    Thanks guys

  9. #29
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    The problem with many of these questions is that some/many are legal in nature and most of us are not attorneys qualified to give legal advice.

    As far as details of renaming the trust, you can do that.

    I would recommend you Google: quicken willmaker nfa trust

    It will give you a lot of material to read over. The one from Arizonagunlist is particularly useful.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman8 View Post
    I have a Quicken trust and was pretty simple to set up, but I have a question about the naming of the trust/grantor...

    If my legal name is "Johnathan Browning Smith", and I use my full legal name in Quicken for the "grantor", then the trust will be named "Johnathan Browning Smith Revocable Living Trust". (I have a long name, no the above is not my name, but I don't know how I would fit all of this when I engrave)

    Questions:

    1) Do I have to use my full legal name for the trust to be valid? Or can I use "John Smith" or "John B. Smith"?

    2) If I do have to use my full legal name, can I abbreviate it when I engrave a lower to JBS Revocable Living Trust? Is there any additional abbreviation that I can use?

    3) I have heard of people naming their trust something like "Johnathan Browning Smith NFA TRUST". How would you change the name of your trust to "NFA Trust" to shorten it up even more?

    Thanks guys
    You'll need to export the document you created on Willmaker to Word and change the name on every occurence.

    I read the entire thread:

    http://www.arizonashooting.com/v3/vi...hp?f=5&t=20316

    David Goldman, a "Florida Gun Trust Attorney", comments in the thread and is baited into giving some great advice.
    Last edited by uwe1; 05-16-11 at 01:47.

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