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Thread: Stag Arms Plus Package (Right of Chart to Left)

  1. #81
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    Gunz and 120-rock on. Couldn't agree more. An "educated" buyer has a higher degree of probability of not buying a Stag. Particularly if the education came courtesy of M4C. I will say that someone could be educated and choose a non-Tier 1 rifle because this person came to the conclusion their needs do not require the differences.

    However, with the price gap between lower Tier rifles and Tier 1 being quite close, with 6920's available for approx. $1K, then going for the better rifle makes even more sense, even if one does not feel they need them at this time. We have all seen what BRD does to people; especially when one starts taking quality training classes.

  2. #82
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    I have to say that before this site I was going to buy a post ban bushmaster. I would have felt as mad as some of the folks in this thread if I'd bought it and then found out I'd made a mistake.

    But let me say this guys, if it works for you, it works. Don't let it bother you. Seriously.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    For less than $950 you can pin a BCM or DD upper to a quality complete lower and STILL have a better gun than a STAG.

    Ok, at this point you are being entirely subjective about which is "better", and I at least went and did some homework instead of throwing out unsubstantiated claims regarding price.

    IF the Stag gun now meets all the criteria for Mil-spec, who's to say the other guns are better? Isn't the chart what was at the crux of this entire conversation? According to many, if a gun is on the "correct" side of the chart, it's GTG.

    So, at this point with a statement like that, the onerous is on you to prove it with more then "They made a shitty produt in the past (which you still havn't proved) so what they make now must still be shit!"

    Now about your claims of cost. A BCM upper (minus the BCG, CH, handguards, etc. is $400. A Bravo BCG is $140, CH is $23, a carry handle is $110, and lastly double heat shield hadnguards are $23.

    Add all that up and we have $696. Just for an upper that competes with the 6920 upper.

    Grab a PSA classic complete lower at $239 and you've got $935. A BCM lower with standard M4 stock is $360 making it $1056.(cos blem lower would bring that down to $985) Throw on an LMT lower at $330 and you get $1026.

    Wanna do it super cheap? Get a "close to milspec" upper from PSA (and to be honest, I can't find anything about it that says any of it isn't milspec so it really does seem like a good deal) for $400. Doesn't come with a carry handle so add another $110 (can't find carry handles on PSA site so I stuck with BCM) and THEN add another %11 percent because it's now being sold as a rifle and thusly needs the tax paid on it as a rifle. All that equals $831.

    Wheras the Stag can be had for $760 pre upgrade, and most likely around $850 with the plus package actually making the PSA gun very competitive.

    There it is. Hard numbers. Taken from BCMs site, Palmettos site, Rainier Arms site and that shop I listed in a previous post.


    If $100 makes the difference between owning and not owning an AR carbine, dudes got bigger issues. And frankly, I could give a shit about the "100 round a year" and "safequeen" owners
    .

    Of course. You've made it clear that you don't give a shit about anybody that doesn't think lockstep with you.

    Last I checked though (my math may be fuzzy on this) if a Stag Model 1 (closest to the 6920) can be had for $760, + $100 for an upgrade making it approx $860, and it meets all the requirements of the mythical chart, doesn't that make it approx $200 cheaper then a colt for *theoretically* the same quality? Don't forget that CMT used to be a Colt supplier, so technically they have the ability to make products just as good as Colt.

    Have you noticed that M4C has influenced makers to change their manufacturing standards? It's not because we've taken the "as good as" or even "good enough" line.
    And they certianly didn't do it because of people ranting and raving like looneys either.

    If Joe six-pack wants a plinker, he can get a cheap carbine from Palmetto State Armory that actually comes very close to mil-spec for something like $550. Stags are bad because they are neither "fish, fowl or good red meat." And they tend to sell for Colt prices at the local gunstore.
    Wait, wut? So now PSA gets a pass at not making milspec because they are on your GTG list? Why don't you call them the same thing you called Stag because they don't make a "perfect" rifle for you from the get-go? Why don't you call all PSA owners "****ing idiots" for buying guns that are "close" to mil-spec rather then perfect for your use?

    And blame their sales price at TLGS on the gun shop, not Stag. I've already listed a place that sells them for $760 (pre-plus package).

    And I see it. The bias is personal. Somebody just wanted something to rave and rant about.

    At this point, you've nothing to say that i'll listen to unless you have proof or facts to back it up. You've already made it so that the chart is meaningless because you are arbitrarty in how you apply it (Stag sucks by PSA gets a pass).

    If you stick by your contention that Stag puts out a "piece of shit" product, prove it. At least I put out my personal negative observations of one of their products (that I don't even think they make in-house) and have also stated that i've used most of the rest of thier products for years with zero issue and will continue to do so if I so choose. And, insofar as the issue I noticed, they may have fixed that issue as it was over 3 years since that happened and I havn't seen another issue like it since.

    What do you have to back up your contentions that Stag/CMT sucks other then the fact that you decided one day that you didn't like them?

    This forum relys heavily on facts, so it's put up or shut up time.
    Last edited by GrumpyM4; 07-10-11 at 20:22.

  4. #84
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    BCM blem lower complete $289
    http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...on&key=LWR-BCM

    BCM 16" M4 profile upper complete $580.95
    http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...on&key=UPR-BCM

    Magpul MBUS can be had for around $50.
    Same with a quality carry handle.

    That's $919.95 for one of the best quality carbine you'll find.

    Now can we please take the pissing contest to PMs?
    I'm tired of clearing out my inbox of this.
    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Anybody that owns or sells pistol versions of assault rifles is a bottom feeder, irregardless of the ban status of certain ammunition.

    They are illigetimate weapons that have no real purpose other than to attract retards to the gun community.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is a point I have made several times. If you make a decision based upon 100-200.00 dollars then you need to buy something else. In addition to the cost of the weapon there is still ammunition, magazines, cleaning kit and other stuff.

    You will not be able to be able to shoot the weapon or clean it in which case it's a waste of time and money.
    This is being a bit disingenuous.

    While folks like us don't have to justify our purchases, not everybody lives the same lifestyle, or has access to the same kind of cash you do.

    When faced with "the list" and a person has cash in hand that they've scraped up long and hard to save (and have a wife to justify their purchases to), they can see that a Stag Model 1 with the upgrade fits all the requirements of the list at a much cheaper price then the Colt. Now they can go buy that cleaning kit, extra magazines, a sling, a travel bag for the rifle, etc, and even some ammunition.

    Add to that I still have yet to have anybody explain exactly *WHY* Stag is a poor quality product based on anything other then they are on the wrong side of the chart.(which now they make a product that isn't)

    Like I said, other then an issue that I saw 3 to 4 years ago, and not even on guns that I own, I have never had an issue with Stag/CMT parts and i've been using their stuff easily since '05, and have built a fair amount of guns for other folks using CMT parts as well without a single issue.

    It's starting to seem to me that some folks just want a new whipping boy and Stag/CMT is in the crosshairs.
    Last edited by GrumpyM4; 07-10-11 at 20:35.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulb View Post
    just out of curiosity how is it that a senior member(120mm) can use words like "shitty", monkeystomped, "****ing idiots" to describe a particular segment of people and a manufacturer and still be on this forum. i have seen people banned for less and im pretty sure i will be after this post but i have to ask the moderators. does being a senior member give u some sort of leeway to say crass things or its all subjective? and way to go GRUMPY u didnt back down.
    Dude, chill. It's all good. Nobody is angry off on my end, it's just a "heated" debate but it remains a "debate" instead of turning into a pissing match and that's what matters.

    I'd still happily shoot next to any one of these ****ers in a heartbeat.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdodd View Post
    - 5.56 NATO chambered barrel with chrome lining, 1/9 twist, double lead lapped, and parkerized under the front sight base
    Can someone explain the benefit of lead lapping or double lead lapping a barrel?

    This is the second time I have seen this recently and am unfamiliar with the term or it's intended benefits.

    Is this the same as regularly lapping a barrel? Is this a barrel break in thing?

  8. #88
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    Grumpy-
    Seriously, you need to pull your ego out of this and do actual research on this forum. There are numerous technical threads, backed up with testing and broad spectrum analysis, not sample sizes of 1 to 5, which is pretty much useless unless you are the guy that owns those guns.

    Really; read more, post less, shoot as much as possible and feel free to monitor your growth and changes in opinion.

    But I just want to make sure that the following is the final word in this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by C-grunt View Post
    I think some people need to read the mission statement of this forum. This forum is geared to the mil/Leo crowd and others who see their AR as a fighting tool first and foremost. That's why we don't like subpar weapons. If you like them for plinking, good for you. But done expect us to believe they are good equipment.
    Fin.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

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