PEQ-15 vs DBAL-A2

[znztivguy]

Reading all this information is great. Problem being that most of these lasers are not available coming from the civilian side. I suppose in my case the best one would be the one I was able to procure and train with.
Being LEO and EX-military does not give any leeway in purchasing the unit directly from the various companies since the forms are a pain (at least here).
Thanks again for the info. Come a long way since the PEQ-4's

[TCBA_Joe]

Here is some useful information on mounting your flashlight and laser on your M4. This article focuses on where you should mount your flashlight and laser, positions on the tape switches for both and hand placement for recoil management.

If you have to zip tie your PEQ so be it. It's no big deal. Zip tie that sucker on then zero the laser.

I ran into a bunch of Marines the other day that had all of their PEQ 15/16s zip tied onto their weapons! SOP.

http://jasonfalla.blogspot.com/2011/...g-options.html

Thanks for the article. I read it a while ago and was interested in your preference on switch placement.

I figured I'd just get a SF SR07-D-IT dual switch and be done with it. I finally got my DBAL-I2 the other day and so i put it all together. Turns out it was impossible to use both switches at the same time. Which is fine if you're running a laser w/ a built in illuminator. Not good if you have a DBAL-I2 and a Vampire for the illuminator. 5 minutes was enough to see it wouldn't work.

So, I opted for a light switch at 1030 and the laser switch at 430. I can easily activate either, or both at the same time.

Now just to bide my time saving for the rest of my PVS-14... Until then I'll just keep playing with the vis laser and lights.

[Iraqgunz]

I got my Surefire M952V when they first started hitting the market heavy. The amount of throw that you get from it in both modes is incredible. I was seeing very clearly with it and my PVS-14.

When I had my PEQ-2A I mounted it at 12 o'clock and found it was the best overall position for it.

[mcmillanman5]

Since this thread had been bumped I decided to add this post.

Earlier in this thread I had asked about NV bloom when people run their peqs behind a pressure pad on the top rail. Had a chance to try a peq so we decided to test it out. We shot a short video that shows what happens when he places just his thumb in the area where everyone seems to place their pressure pads.

It really interferes with the illuminator and causes alot of bloom in front of the PEQ for the shooter.

[JSantoro]

I know that you picked it up from somewhere else, but...

"Scorpion grip?" *heavy sigh*

Okay, terms.....not a lecture, but some folks are blurring lines, and that can be bad for somebody.

Blooming of a laser occurs no matter what. Photons bounce off of whatever they strike, be it visible or IR light, be it your hand, a license plate, your target. Just about any laser dot you see, you perceive it to be larger than it actually is because of blooming that occurs directly around the site of where that laser falls; and that's just the stuff that bounces back directly enough at YOU with sufficient intensity for you to perceive it to begin with. There's more there that you are not picking up because of the direction it takes and attenuation by the surface it's striking or the environment between you and what it's striking. The less intense the beam, be it from low power at the aperture end or from attenuation over distance, the less bloom you will perceive. You saw this when you dumped from DH to DL. The beam intensity diminished, which is as it should be, and so did the splash from the beam.

What was happening as a result of device/hand placement is masking. Or blocking, or screening, or whatever synonym one cares to use. The blooming of the laser was more intense simply due to the close proximity of the surface the beam was (partially) striking, in this case a hand.

Physiologically, that's not ideal when running that thing in any of the H settings. The laser of a Class 3B device is capable of damaging the eyes, specifically the retina, more specifically the macula/fovea centralis (which is where all of our rods/cones are, and is the center of gravity of our most clear daytime bision and our nighttime vision).

-Unaided, you cannot see an IR beam or reflections in your eye. You don't know to flinch like you would if I blasted you in the face with a SF X300 from 12" away.

-There is no pain. Very little in the way of tactile sensory nerves IN the eye. Eye irritation or pain is usualy in the flesh immediately touching the surface of the eye, not the eye itself. Take enough IR splash in the face to create retinal damage....you won't know it unless you get retinal photos taken. $$$$ In fact, if one ever knowingly takes a shot to the face with a laser, feeling pain is sorta GOOD news, because THAT'S your cornea; that'll heal, and heal quickly. Your retina may still be FFL, because....

-Retinal damage is permanent. And the damaged area may "grow," over time, so if it's in or near the center of your focal plane, you'll end up with reduced nighttime vision, and likely see a fuzzy, unfocused spot in your vision that can have nothing done to it...except get used to it. FFL.

Reason I bring this up:
The NVG in front of the eye is effectively covered up and safe from the splash shown in that vid. That produces a "washed" image; an interpretation of what the intensifier tube is seeing, so that eye isn't receiving any laser energy. Same with the video camera.

Any other eye NOT covered up and nearby, however, has a chance of catching a beam-bounce of relatively intense, monochromatic light. The greater concern is specular reflection (off of a smooth, polished surface likely to reflect and maintain the integrity of the primary beam), but diffuse reflections, like those shown comong off of flesh in the vid, can be hazardous if one is close enough, even with a 3B device. Which is what a no-shit PEQ device is, in the high-power settings. Devices are rated at their highest potential hazard level.

Ergo, folks, if you're gonna put your Class 3B device on the high settings, it's inadvisable for you to put your frickin dickskinners in front of the frickin beam without the presence of laser-safety glasses of the correct beam wavelength (in this case, 835nm) and ocular density (OD, in this case, 1.7) sitting on your face to protect the eye NOT covered by NVG/camera.

I mean, unless eventually sporting a white cane and a meticulously trained free dog is one of one's lifetime goals. Far be it from anybody to stand in the way of a person's desired endstate.....

If that's a no-kidding Insight PEQ-15 or -16A, keep it on the low settings if you plan to spend a lot of time deliberately putting solid objects directly in the beam from 0m to, oh, about 117m.

Yeah....

That's the biggest problems with lasers. 1) Everybody just thinks they're slightly more focused flashlight beams, and 2) let's face it...they're cool.

I need to get off my ass and sticky a laser technical rundown and safety brief. at myself.

[Titleist]

For ****'s sake can someone sticky JSantoro's last post?! Thank you for the unsubtle reminder that these things are in fact dangerous if you're not careful.

[mcmillanman5]

I should first apologize for a couple things. I should have started my post with the disclaimer that IR lasers are not eye safe, I did and do understand that.

The second thing is that when running the lasers they are and should be treated with care. It is my fault for not pointing out that the shooters non covered eye was closed when placing his thumb up there. Hands are NOT normally placed out there. I was just trying to show how dumb it seems when everyone puts these pressure pads directly in front of the laser. I suppose my logic in doing so was flawed. In an attempt to illustrate something dumb I did something dumb without properly explaining what was going on.

I agree with the above posts 100% about safety and again I am sorry if it appeared I was being unsafe. I will take the video down so that no one else gets the wrong idea about what was trying to be shown.

As for the scorpion grip name I heard it here on m4c and thought it was funny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmFR4x-iXNU

[JSantoro]

To be clear, I also wasn't trying to call you or your friend out as individuals.

More of a "Teachable Moment" sort of thing, hopefully for the good of all that read. You have nothing to apologize for, and it actually rare for somebody using one of these things to be aware of what's maybe going on with the exposed eye; it's nice to see.

It's sorta hard to zone in on laser-safety stuff without making it sound as if the user will immediately self-immolate upon pressing the activation switch....which, if one ever listens to the members of the DoN Laser Safety Review Board, is EXACTLY what will happen.

I agree about putting remote pads to the front when the device isn't mounted out the plane of one's hands. If it's strictly a Class 1 device, it's a merely a bad practice in instances where one might be using a Class 3R or B (used to be marked Class a or b...) at other times, but not inherently hazardous in and of itself. For a Class 3B-capable device set to any "?H" setting.....it zips right past the Bad Idea line and into Get the Hell Away From Me, Asshole area.

A great many folks that poo-poo the idea that it's that big a deal are the same folks that'll jump your shit for not wearing ear-pro IOT prevent cumulative hearing loss. Laser stuff is the same concept, just a different sensory organ --y'know, the one we USE THE MOST. Question becomes, which one would you rather lose, hearing or your ability to see clearly?

Personally, my answer is "neither."

I wear ear-pro and I'll ninja-roll over a table with my eyes squeezed shut at a gun show to avoid all the dipshits that let passers-by fling Class 3 green lasers all hither and yon, because there's no such thing as LEP that protects from all wavelengths and ODs.

[Titleist]

Again awesome post. I think that pretty much cements a lot of the "where should the IR laser be mounted" debates this thread has been about.

Once again, thanks for that input.

[mcmillanman5]

No offense taken J, your posts are always knowledgeable and informative.

In my attempt to contribute to the thread I did a really poor job of explaining what was going on and surely must have appeared as either unsafe or incompetent (I would like to think I am neither) and will work to improve on that in the future.