2012 Presidential Race Thread

[Sensei]

Huh? Most libertarians want to see the freebies done away with.

Many say that, but their actions sing a different tune. Perhaps the best example is the libertarian opposition to drug testing welfare recipients. This is a big one since dependance on the welfare state is our greatest internal threat.

http://www.libertariannews.org/2011/...ns-bath-salts/

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice...public-workers

While many libertarians like to claim "neither" when it comes to drug testing and welfare, the effect of this non-vote is ever increasing dependance on the government by the addicted since experience dictates that the rolls will need to be shrunk before they are eliminated. Others are less ideologically pure and attempt to claim 4th Amendment protections against unreasonable search and seizure which essentially elevates welfare to a public right.

A vote for Romney will be a different shit sandwich at best. If people want to vote for him as ABO strategy, that's fine, but trying to hold up Romney a great American blah blah blah has their head stuck so far in the sand they can see Australians.

I think that you are confusing people's opinions of his past policies and their views of him as an American. Most of us disagree with his past policies and hope that a conservative Congress will hold his feet to the fire. Having said that, many politicians (and citizens) change their views, and Romney's current platform is far more agreeable than Obama's. On the other hand, people hold him up to be a great American because he is an excellent businessman who has given far more to his fellow citizens than he has taken. That is to say, being a great American does not necessarily mean that we share political views.

[Belmont31R]

So since Ron Paul is the only presidential candidate that has never once given an inch on any of his political positions...
Is your answer Gary Johnson?

Nope...

[Belmont31R]

Many say that, but their actions sing a different tune. Perhaps the best example is the libertarian opposition to drug testing welfare recipients. This is a big one since dependance on the welfare state is our greatest internal threat.

http://www.libertariannews.org/2011/...ns-bath-salts/

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice...public-workers

While many libertarians like to claim "neither" when it comes to drug testing and welfare, the effect of this non-vote is ever increasing dependance on the government by the addicted since experience dictates that the rolls will need to be shrunk before they are eliminated. Others are less ideologically pure and attempt to claim 4th Amendment protections against unreasonable search and seizure which essentially elevates welfare to a public right.




I think that you are confusing people's opinions of his past policies and their views of him as an American. Most of us disagree with his past policies and hope that a conservative Congress will hold his feet to the fire. Having said that, many politicians (and citizens) change their views, and Romney's current platform is far more agreeable than Obama's. On the other hand, people hold him up to be a great American because he is an excellent businessman who has given far more to his fellow citizens than he has taken. That is to say, being a great American does not necessarily mean that we share political views.

Sounds to me like whoever wrote that opposes the war on drugs, and were not supporting welfare as a separate issue.



Conservative Congress?


As soon as 'we' got Congress back it was the same ole shit from 01-07. Big spending & restricting our rights. It took a shit storm to get my Rep to drop his support of the NDAA, and all they did was a give it a new title and suddenly they were all back on board. They also passed the law making it a felony to disrupt politicians by giving them a non-free speech zone around them.

I don't know what it will take to make people realize the GOP isn't the freedom loving conservatives they purport to be. I'd rather take a "loony" libertarian and risk getting attacked by a foreigner 5000 miles away vs. voting GOP and ensuring I'll be attacked by my own government.

[Business_Casual]

I don't know what it will take to make people realize the GOP isn't the freedom loving conservatives they purport to be. I'd rather take a "loony" libertarian and risk getting attacked by a foreigner 5000 miles away vs. voting GOP and ensuring I'll be attacked by my own government.

We know that. We know they voted for TARP. We know they are on tape with every prostitute in DC, legal and illegal, Romney Care etc. etc.

That isn't the point. The point is if you don't participate in this election and push out the communists, there might not be a whole lot of future to look forward to for any of us.

The left has surged - they've moved the ball further in 3 years than in any 3 decades prior - it is crunch time, IMO.

BC

[Sensei]

I'd rather take a "loony" libertarian and risk getting attacked by a foreigner 5000 miles away vs. voting GOP and ensuring I'll be attacked by my own government.

And you are free to do that. Just understand that you will not win a national election anytime soon since only about 5-10% of the nation agrees with the majority of your party's platform. Despite Paul's personal popularity this year, that percentage is not likely to change anytime soon since a large number of his supporters were college kids who only agreed with his stance on legalizing marijuana. They will go back to voting for Obama this fall since they agree with every other portion of the progressive agenda.

Hence Barry Goldwater's adage, "Vote for the most conservative candidate that actually has a chance to win."

[Belmont31R]

We know that. We know they voted for TARP. We know they are on tape with every prostitute in DC, legal and illegal, Romney Care etc. etc.

That isn't the point. The point is if you don't participate in this election and push out the communists, there might not be a whole lot of future to look forward to for any of us.

The left has surged - they've moved the ball further in 3 years than in any 3 decades prior - it is crunch time, IMO.

BC

My state will go to Romney no matter how I vote.

I think I do my part by spreading limited government ideology, and helping people understand how our government works as best as I can. Just like people who think non-interventionalism doesn't mean sticking your head in the sand. It just means not getting involved where we have no business getting involved. If someone is threatening us then it is our business. RP specifically said if Iran was poised to attack us he would defend the country. Where his policy differs with people who want to bomb everyone in sight is going around telling other countries what they can and can't do AKA world police. He also has a point about our saber rattling, and it gives these dipshits credibility to their own people.

I don't get why so many people say they agree with RP on 90% of the issues yet pass him over, and then go for the most far left Republican nominee in 3 decades. Why are our nominees going left election cycle after election cycle? The Tea Party was huge reason in Republicans getting Congress back, and yet the Republicans shun small government. I swear mainstream Republicans take just as much pleasure in bashing libertarians as they do Democrats.

What was the last year a Republican president had a balanced budget?

[Belmont31R]

And you are free to do that. Just understand that you will not win a national election anytime soon since only about 5-10% of the nation agrees with the majority of your party's platform. Despite Paul's personal popularity this year, that percentage is not likely to change anytime soon since a large number of his supporters were college kids who only agreed with his stance on legalizing marijuana. They will go back to voting for Obama this fall since they agree with every other portion of the progressive agenda.

Hence Barry Goldwater's adage, "Vote for the most conservative candidate that actually has a chance to win."

Hmm..Mao, Stalin or Hitler...which one's most conservative?


One of my good friends, a Mormon, makes over 100k a year at a company he co-founded, and is a HUGE RP fan. I think its a bit of misnomer that RP fans are pot smoking college kids. I went to a RP meeting earlier this year, and there weren't even any college age kids there. No one was talking about supporting Ron Paul so they could smoke pot legally, and this was in Austin which is hippy/college central. Most people just want to be left the hell alone, and stop feeding the beast.

I would have a lot more respect for Mitt if he had said RomneyCare turned out to not be a good idea in retrospect (highest HC costs in the nation), but he didn't, and defended that. He has, as recently as the debates, defended his anti-gun laws he passed. That makes me think he is capable of doing the same thing again, and based on his MA judge nominations he isn't capable of nominating right leaning judges, either. Politically, he doesn't really have a record that distinguishes him from most Democrats. Sure, he was dealing with a far left MA legislature, but he's the one who put his name on those laws not anyone else. Just Obama is responsible for the conditions right now, him using the Republican House as an excuse is the same as saying Romney did the best he could with a Democrat legislature in MA while governor.

Looking at Paul Ryan's budget plan, and his voting history it's the same ole story. He has a aye vote next to most major legislation I despise, and which should be important to anyone who values their own personal freedom.

Yes I realize my ideology is not popular, and the march of big government will go on no matter who wins under the current two parties. Just like NOW, with a split Congress, and we are still spending over a trillion dollars a year in borrowed money. I find it hilarious the RNC put up a debt clock when Republican's are just as much to blame as Democrats for it.

[Sensei]

What was the last year a Republican president had a balanced budget?

Bush 2001. You have 1 guess as to what event put an end to that...

[Belmont31R]

Bush 2001. You have 1 guess as to what event put an end to that...

The Federal fiscal year ends at the end of Sep so the budget passed which covered from Jan 01 to Sep 01 was passed by Clinton. The first budget Bush signed which would cover Oct 01 to Sep 02 was a deficit.

[Belmont31R]

Obama Reaction to Clint Eastwood: https://twitter.com/BarackObama/stat...w_p=tweetembed