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Thread: AAR: Front Sight 4 Day Defensive Handgun

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Arizona
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    Interesting AAR.

    Not to derail but for training around Arizona these come to mind immediately. Mike Pannone (awesome), Chris L VSM (great value/ great instruction/great with new people like myself), LMS Defense (not gone myself yet but heard good things from people I shoot with).... come to mind for the area. Always have a few other instructors that visit.
    Last edited by pennzoil; 05-23-11 at 17:52.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    137
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    I have taken the 4 day rifle class. It was a great class IMO, great experience. It was my first formal rifle training, used a rental Dissipator with iron sights and PMC ball, with a 3 point sling! Reloaded from my back pocket. Very retro. I barely missed Distinguished Graduate, still have my qual target hanging in my basement. I still remember racing through Type 3 malfunction clearances with the next student, a Sayoc Kali knife fighting instructor who was one scaaaaarry MFer.

    (For reference I have since also trained rifle with Vickers(1x) and Harrington(2x) and done a ton of close range tactical rifle work on steel with 9mm ARs, as well as PD patrol rifle training and personal structured training.)

    The Rangemaster for my class was fantastic, a retired Marine named Scott Hoerner. There was a guy in my class who had taken the rifle class like 30 times. He was a total death dealer with a 16" AR10 w/ ACOG, easily winning the shootoff, he was very skilled, a guy named Bill Haag. I'll never forget how those .308 rounds hammered the steel.

    Two of the other Distinguished Graduates in my class were using the then new Leupold CQT 1-3x scopes. I said something like, "I heard on the internet that those suck." They said something like, "Don't believe everything you read kid, these scopes are awesome." They then just cleaned the course of fire.

    I'll never forget the Dissipator bolt was getting a little sluggish and Bob Redmond, a retired SWAT cop/Vietnam Vet doing some instructing, pooring motor oil into the ejection port. No more Hiccups, gun ran great, ARs run great wet!

    There was a fireman from MI who was a First Family Member. He had his 12yr old son out there with him. They had a helicopter on site and for $250 you could do a few runs in the helicopter engaging steel targets with a full auto M4. So the guy buys a ride for his 12yr old. How cool would that be for a kid? The kid shot Graduate by the way.

    The night shoot was awesome. Last part was a mad minute where all 40 guys engaged one steel target for a mag dump. Very cool, sounded like the 4th of July.

    I almost had to off my friend on the flight home but that is another story. LOL

    I really think Frontsight does a great job. They really MAY train more people than the rest of the firearms training industry put together. The more people trained the better.

    If I lived closer I would have a membership and train all the time out there. I would love to take the 4 Day Combat Master Prep course, and the 4 Day Advanced Practical Rifle and Shotgun with Kirby Reed have always gotten rave reviews.

    Dave Williams

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Phoenix AZ
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    341
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    29 (97%)
    Cool man... another good review, I'm glad I'm not the only one that liked the experience and would go again. I know FS is not thought of highly on this forum because of their marketing and piazza looks and sounds like a dousch, but if you can get passed that I highly reccomend anyone go take a class there.

    Good training, good people and a good way to get some rounds down range.
    "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"

    Semper Paratus AR-15 Armorer

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Thanks for the review

    I'm a First Family member myself but have only attended 1 class so far, the 4DDHG.

    I agree with your opinion on the the propaganda and strange marketing.. I think that it's odd and makes people not take them serious, but to be fair a lot of that stuff is optional. The instructors were great thou. I too had issues going from isosceles back to weaver but for better or worse that's what they teach and if you so desire you can shoot any way you want to, just tell the instructors to back off. They told us numerous times you can tell them that. They have a job to do and it's to teach their curriculum, whether they believe in it or not. I encourage you, if you haven't done it yet, to voice your opinion in the course questionnaire.

    When I spoke to instructors they had a different take on the night shoot. Frontsight might have started out as a gun enthusiast only place but it's evolved to where a LOT of brand new shooters learn firearms safety and marksmanship.

    Did you notice how many people had rental guns? How many people in your class were using someone else's gun? I know of 5 for sure in my class of 32 that were using borrowed guns because they didn't' own one. I saw the Front Sight Glocks all over the place and there were probably over 3/4 of my class had no other training before and probably 1/3 had very limited shooting experience at all. That's why they do a lot of what they do. Some days are already 12 hours long and the night shoot was pushing it much longer. The instructors where also having issues maintaining safety on the night shoot with the new shooters.

    As for the turning targets It's probably more cost related as none of the newer ranges seemed to have them while all the older ones did.

    I'll be back, I'm just not sure if I'll take the 2 day skill builder which is the 4 day class without lecture, it's all range time, or if I'll jump up to the 2 day advanced next. As much as I'd love to take a rifle class, I don't carry a carbine or rifle with me every day but my G23 comes with me so I figure I should train with what I carry first.

    ETA: I didn't get what you said about FS being "The best thing to happen to the 2A ever" I didn't see that at all. I saw them attempting to educate the masses that our 2A rights are under attack and it's up to them to stand up for and fight for our rights.
    Last edited by joe_sun; 05-29-11 at 11:31.

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