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Member
Glad to see there are others out there who compete to train not to win. I wear normal clothing and my everyday carry gear, and refuse to do things I think are stupid in a scenario (usually doesn't happen too often), I don't care if they dock me procedural points...because that isn't THE point!
Member
My FIRST 3-gun match.
I decided to go back to the basics and challenge myself by competing with a bare bones weapon in an effort to see how much of an edge gear/technology gave to the shooter. All in all, I did fairly well, but more importantly I learned some important points:
1. Slow the hell down because the targets that you don't shoot, don't count (or count against you). "Speed is the efficiency of movement..."
2. A LOT of people don't know what cover is. Shooting over the hood of a car is NOT cover. I guess that's the difference between a game and real life. I used this game as an additional training opportunity. It slowed me down a tad bit, but I don't want to develop bad habits.
3. Run with what ya brung. My "older" eyes aren't as good as they were when I was 18. I'm bringing my Aimpoint next time.
4. Happy shooting!
Weapon I used.
Member
I have used my old SP1 type 20" AR before for the same reason. Recently, I used an M1 Garand. I have one set-up in .308 as a "general purpose rifle" and I like seeing how my actual "using guns" do, and how I do with them. I don't think I did any worse than usual, and maybe better in some cases...and a lot of that is because it MADE ME slow down.Originally Posted by The Archangel
You ain't kiddin'! Most people don't even know what it's CALLED! I grit my teeth every time I'm at an IDPA match and a shooter says "Oh, I need to get my cover". What- You have some armor plate in your car?2. A LOT of people don't know what cover is. Shooting over the hood of a car is NOT cover.
Then they come back with their photgraphers vest or jacket....which they took off between stages because "it's too hot" (boo hoo).
Oh man, don't get me started.
Member
These are good points. Great pics Archangel! And although I too like to keep-it-simple, I also concur with the Aimpoint need. Turned 50 this past Feb. and the irons have been a fuzzy blob for the past several years. My using the red dot in matches is OK though, since it stays on the gun back at my rural residence for homeland defense. I was considering going with some kind of magnifier or variable-power scope for awhile, but then I thought naw -- keep-it-simple.
I shot IPSC/USPSA back in the 90's entirely in "limited" division, which excludes optics or comps on the gun, but does allow race-type holster rigs. Although I used one for a short time I was never comfortable with it, and spent most of the period with a for-real carry rig, sometimes even from concealment just for the hell of it. Neither concealment nor cover are mandated in IPSC/USPSA, and one time an RO even gave me a hard time for drawing from under my jacket. Never did figure out what "logic" he was following there. Since I've been shooting mostly IDPA during the current decade, these issues are largely rendered moot by the fairly explicit concealment and cover requirements.
Most recently doing 3-gun, I've seen that some shooters like to wear a lot of web gear, and everyone has to wear more junk in general than when actually on the street. Carrying shells to reload your shotgun is especially bulky. Thigh holsters are popular, but I still use my everyday IWB without any disadvantage. Rifle mags often just go in my rear pants pocket, although I will sometimes break out my chest rig if feeling adventurous. Again, this rig is originally intended for a back-at-home "invasion" scenario, however unlikely hopefully that will ever happen.
Likewise, the "What Concealment Garment for IDPA?" web posts. I have to conclude that for these shooters it is wholly a game -- which is fine -- but that they really don't have anything they already use everyday, because they never actually carry.
Member
It's the ones that call it one thing but do something else that concern me- The ones who say they are using it to work on defensive skills, but appearances tell a different story.
If they aren't serious about that and are doing it for fun or sport, then OK. It IS a game, no matter what.
But when they claim to be serious about using this as preparation for daily carry, yet:
-They use a Glock 17 in a Kydex belt holster in the match because it's "easier" than with the G27 and IWB they actually use (when they carry)...
-They have to hunt down something to conceal it with...
-And and are thrilled when the match director declares it's too hot and concealment won't be required (Oh, how I hate that one)...
...Then I have to wonder what it is they are trying to accomplish.
I might just outright suck, but if I'm sucking with what I carry, then I know I need work and where.
If they really are serious, and this is the pinnacle of what they do to prepare for carry in the real world...then I'm concerned for them.
I know unsolicited advice is seldom welcome, so I keep my mouth shut, bite my lip, and go on.
Member
In one of his many writings (I forget which one), Massad Ayoob acknowledges risking the ire of the gun-owning world by his opinion that those who carry should be required to pass some kind of basic competency test.
Although I believe as fervently as anyone in the God-given right to self defense, at the same time I've witnessed some really reckless, idiotic, and potentially devastating behavior with guns. The "right" comes on the condition of also accepting the responsibility, toward which some people seem absolutely clueless.
Member
I will stop short (and JUST short) of fully agreeing with him. I would have screamed bloody murder at those comments at one time, but all it takes is a couple of trips to a public range or to an "Intro" class to see how it really is "out there". We have no class/instructional requirement here in IN to get a carry permit, and I do admit wondering about that at times.
Like a friend said to me at a gunshow in the late 80's as we waded through the sea of "Kill em all" T-shirt wearing goobers: Sometimes, we are our own worst enemy.
Member
Virginia requires 4 hours of classroom only, no hands-on.
Yup. Many years ago when I was working at the NRA and part of the "Senior Firearms Instructors" program teaching CCW classes, I got in an argument with the head instructor over this. We had a one hour live fire portion of the class, and once I had a student who not only couldn't hit a target after an hour, but he was ridiculously unsafe and refused to pay any attention to me during our one-on-one training hour. So I refused to sign his First Steps certificate. The head guy signed it for me, and since then he's signed them all himself.
Industry Professional/Moderator
Todd-
I just gotta know, how did that argument go? I mean, how did the Head Instuctor justify his position?
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