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Thread: Cherry pick the TDP

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtyboy333 View Post
    This.......As much as i like it, its time to do away with chrome lining. I just finished reading another thread about accuracy expectations of an M4 type and the consensus was 2-5 MOA under the best conditions. Meaning match ammo, good rest, good optic. I would be pissed off if my AR could only shoot 3-4MOA but everyone seemed to be in agreement of the expectations.

    So, the only reason i can think of for this is chrome lining. I haven't yet shot my CL DD for accuracy but all of the sudden i have a feeling im going to be disappointed. My cheap non-chromed Dstar M4 and my non-chromed Sig 556 (which aren't known to be accurate) shoot dramatically better than that (with a tool bag for a rest and an awful NcStar scope)

    I always heard CL'ing slightly hurt accuracy but i had no idea it was that bad.
    The Noveske N4 is at least sub-1.5 MOA. And it's 2x chrome lined.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayden Billick View Post
    The Noveske N4 is at least sub-1.5 MOA. And it's 2x chrome lined.
    Yeah, that's what I would expect for a CL barrel 1.5-2.

    Rob: I see the potential for a hijack on this thread into a CL vs. N. discussion. My fault......I'll stay on topic.
    Last edited by Dirtyboy333; 06-03-11 at 02:50.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtyboy333 View Post
    Yeah, that's what I would expect for a CL barrel 1.5-2.

    Rob: I see the potential for a hijack on this thread into a CL vs. N. discussion. My fault......I'll stay on topic.
    It is on topic, no worries.

    The intent here is to gather all of the "I can design a better AR" posts into one place, so a tangent on nitriding vs. chrome lining is right in line with that.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtyboy333 View Post

    Also, I have no knowledge of CL vs. Nitride cost but once the facilities are in place, do you think nitriding would be easier/cheaper?
    I've had this conversation with the guys at Robarm couple of times, and the consensus was that nitriding would be cheaper for their operation.

    I do wonder, and this is just me thinking out loud, nitride makes the barrel surface harder and more corrosion resistant, but what about heat? Does nitride reduce friction between the projectile and rifling, or increase friction, which in turn would increase heat build up?
    Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_M View Post


    Increase extractor size.
    Maybe 30% larger or so (knee-jerk. Let some engineers actually do the math). As we shorten the barrel (and more importantly, the gas system), extractor tension becomes more paramount due to the increased violence of the action. New inserts and springs help this greatly but if we increased the overall size of the extractor we wouldn't need add-on's. For those that are going to naysay Stoner for having the extractor it does, remember that when he developed the system it was around a 20" barrel with a rifle length gas system.
    Dave,
    Just so I'm tracking on this:
    Is the purpose to reduce breakages of the extractor itself?
    Or
    To get a wider bite on the case rim and allow more extraction force without deforming or ripping the rim off?
    Or
    To move the pivot point to allow more extractor tension without extra heavy springs?
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  6. #46
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    Why don't you shoot it before pronouncing judgement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtyboy333 View Post
    This.......As much as i like it, its time to do away with chrome lining. I just finished reading another thread about accuracy expectations of an M4 type and the consensus was 2-5 MOA under the best conditions. Meaning match ammo, good rest, good optic. I would be pissed off if my AR could only shoot 3-4MOA but everyone seemed to be in agreement of the expectations.

    So, the only reason i can think of for this is chrome lining. I haven't yet shot my CL DD for accuracy but all of the sudden i have a feeling im going to be disappointed. My cheap non-chromed Dstar M4 and my non-chromed Sig 556 (which aren't known to be accurate) shoot dramatically better than that (with a tool bag for a rest and an awful NcStar scope)

    I always heard CL'ing slightly hurt accuracy but i had no idea it was that bad.

  7. #47
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    Great point LL. It would be helpful for the purposes of this discussion if people identified issues with the current design that they have ACTUAL firsthand experience with or complaints they have based on ACTUAL use. "I hear chrome lining is bad for accuracy" is different than "I needed to shoot a guy in a man-dress at 200 yards and believe that I missed due to my chrome-lined barrel".

  8. #48
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    VB: I'm not sure about your heat question but it is a good point. And yeah, I had a feeling it would be a cheaper process.

    LL: why don't YOU go read the current thread on this site about accuracy expectations and see what YOU gather from it. Also, why don't you stop picking out 1 basically meaningless comment in my post and reply to the general content of it? I have shot it just not for groups (I've shot plenty of CL'd barrels, who hasn't) I honestly think it will be just fine but that thread is a little concerning for ME. In case you didn't understand, I'm referring to CL barrels in general and not just about my particular sample.

    Oh my, Rob I don't think you are gonna find anyone who can blame a missed shot in combat on a CL'd barrel. There's no way to determine that.

    If there's a process that is equal to or better than CL in protection, wear etc. and at the same time bumps up accuracy, I can't think of any reason not to suggest it. That's not even taking into consideration that it may very well be cheaper.



    Anyway, there seems to be some others who would like to see nitriding as well. Again, it's just a suggestion.
    Last edited by Dirtyboy333; 06-03-11 at 10:41. Reason: Not worth it

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtyboy333 View Post
    LL: why don't YOU go read the current thread on this site about accuracy expectations and see what YOU gather from it. Also, I have shot it just not for groups (I've shot plenty of CL'd barrels, who hasn't) I honestly think it will be just fine but that thread is a little concerning for ME. In case you didn't understand, I'm referring to CL barrels in general and not just about my particular sample.
    Can you link to the other thread for those that want to follow along. If it's the thread I think you mean there is whole lot of conjecture and mythology there too.

    FWIW, as a general rule of forum etiquette if you're going to mention another thread the best practice is to link to it.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Can you link to the other thread for those that want to follow along. If it's the thread I think you mean there is whole lot of conjecture and mythology there too.

    FWIW, as a general rule of forum etiquette if you're going to mention another thread the best practice is to link to it.
    Well I hope that's the case.

    This was the 1st forum I have been a member of so no, I didn't know it was proper etiquette. Lemme try to figure out how to link.

    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=82250

    Particularily concerning to me was the long post with Pat Rodgers stating the standard is 4 MOA. Also noticed most of the people who mention good accuracy (2moa and under) are speaking of non chrome or stainless. I would not be happy 3-4Moa with M193

    Again, I really didnt wanna turn this into a thread jack.
    Last edited by Dirtyboy333; 06-03-11 at 07:48.

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