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Thread: REVIEW: Griffin Armament M4-SD Tactical Compensator

  1. #21
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    You lost me?

    Quote Originally Posted by BSWilson View Post
    I disagree. The post you quote rationalizes BC using an "inspired design", but then is rather hostile to GA for likely doing the same thing. If "prior art" is good for the goose, why not the gander?



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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    It looks familiar!!
    It sure as hell does!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClosetCaseNerd View Post
    Griffin Armament - I would be very surprised if nobody here shared my sentiments:

    I can't help but feel that you studied a Battlecomp, and asked yourself how can we make the same thing, but different enough to not APPEAR like we are trying to make the same exact thing.

    What is improved on your design over the BC besides it's theoretical strength (which to me, is like selling a hair brush that is 400% stronger)? Lets acknowledge the elephant in the room, did you simply feel you could beat Battlecomp's price on their own design? That would be a slippery slope...Battlecomp has a $150 product available when KAC's $500 inconel product wasn't even obtainable. Their design and machining process is significantly different than KAC's. Battlecomp's product has the ports at the 12 o'clock position that redirect gasses to fight muzzle rise as well as recoil, something the Levang comp design lacks. It appears your product was made to simply under cut a $150 item by a lousy $20 with a minimal design change that improve what? How would you feel if your designs were produced by a Chinese company for $100?

    I wouldn't consider myself blindly brand loyal, but I recognize good customer service. Battlecomp has had a presence here on the board as well as having been receptive to the forum's input and suggestions. I concede: "There is more than one way to skin a cat", and yet still only so many ways to skin a cat. I also know that competition is good for the consumer as it drives pricing down. While I keep those thoughts in mind, perhaps you can better explain your product and your intentions when you designed it? What does it do better than existing products that look remarkably similar?
    Isn't capitalism great?!?! Hopefully a few more companies will start chucking up a chunk if metal in their CNC mills and we can get the price on battle comps down to about $30 so we can all run one on our $600 M4's instead of those tupid flash hiders.

    I also read your post and wonder why on this forum in particular there always seems to be someone that feels the need to jump on the negativity band wagon when someone is simply trying to relay information about a product or tactic that they find effective. It really doesn't do any of us any good to keep doing this to each other.
    Last edited by Jesse Tischauser; 06-04-11 at 09:05.

  4. #24
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    Okay, I see where everyone else is coming from, and again I have zero affiliation with Griffin. This is my first official review of anything and after testing out the comp, I felt that the world needs to know about another product. I was not a believer in comps because I've never tried one. I'm sure Battlecomp has a strong showing at national boards, hell I've even emailed them, and I have a friend who is sponsored by them. I'm not here to compare them to any other comp, I'm here to post a review as I promised I would.

    This is one reason I rarely post at national boards, peoe always find something to pick at. If the mods think I'm affiliated or that this review is out of line, please delete it. As long as I kept my promise and stated how I felt about the comp, that's all that matters.

    Eli

  5. #25
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    It may not make much difference to some since I too don't have a high post count, but I personally know Eli & Jesse and they are both firearm enthusiasts just like us. Jesse is a wildcat competitive shooter and Eli is a pho-lovin Asian LEO. I can't speak for JoeBob but I have purchased products from him/them and they're gtg in my book.

    Yes I know Eli and I am the one that is "sponsored" by BCE. I have seen the Griffon comp and it is SIMILAR to the BC. Performance wasn't as good as the BC, to me!

    Its a great review Eli and thank you for sharing.

    M4C, don't be so quick to pass judgment and shoot the messenger. It's not always some evil company trying to deceive the masses into buying more of their products.

    -Jeremy

    ETA: just wanted to add, I visit this site everyday numerous times a day. I mainly check pic threads, general AR, technical AR, and the classifieds. I saw Eli's review and didn't feel the need to comment until some false accusations were introduced. He did not ask me to stick up for him. He's Asian. He can use Kung Fu and stick up for himself.
    Last edited by Wormydog1724; 06-04-11 at 10:44.
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    This isn't "Ihuntcoyotes.com.

  6. #26
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    Thanks for the info. I may actually get one - need all the help I can get...
    Addressing solely the functionality and design concept, whether this looks like or functions like product X, or appears to be a copy with marginal changes/improvements of product Y is neither here nor there.
    Form follows function.
    They're all big boys, and if somehow some patent got infringed, it will be handled - don't think anyone cares how we feel about that.
    All we should give a rats ass about is whether it works or whether its crap. If it works better or the same, at a better price, people will buy it. If their service sucks, people will stop buying it and they will go down.
    It's called free enterprise and capitalism.
    On the other hand of course, as we have site sponsors, it obviously makes sense they protect their turf. I'd do the same thing. But this should not get in the way of giving a product, any product worth while, an objective review.

    Edit: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=78915
    Comparison is already being discussed and BC appears to have a provisional patent - this will become very interesting, changing a rectangle to a square makes not a new design me thinks.
    Last edited by polydeuces; 06-04-11 at 12:07. Reason: new info
    Per Ardua ad Astra.
    STS - gone but not forgotten.

  7. #27
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    I believe this board has locked threads in the past when persons who were first time posters suddenly popped up to make review/ recommendations.

    Regardless of how legit the review is or isn't, when someone comes to a board for no reason other than to promote a product, its obvious that its going to be looked at with suspicion.

    If ef9turbo had been posting since he joined, I don't think anyone would question his review, though the similarities to BC would obviously be mentioned.

    ef9turbo- If you are a LEO now, stay safe, and post more, especially if you like to shoot pictures.
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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  8. #28
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    Stick,

    I completely understand what everyone is saying/thinking, I honestly do. Ive been here for over a year and have made purchases here. I just havent has a reason to post anything. I've actually followed you quite a bit and read a lot of your reviews. I'm also a member at weapons evo.

    Yes I'm a current LEO and had planned to join the LE forum when I first joined the site, I just never got around to it. I plan on being more active so hopefully sometime in the near future this can be something forgotten. If it matters I frequent oklahomashooter dot com, and anyone there can verify that I have never posted or had any thing about Griffin, other then review I made. Thanks

    Eli



    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    I believe this board has locked threads in the past when persons who were first time posters suddenly popped up to make review/ recommendations.

    Regardless of how legit the review is or isn't, when someone comes to a board for no reason other than to promote a product, its obvious that its going to be looked at with suspicion.

    If ef9turbo had been posting since he joined, I don't think anyone would question his review, though the similarities to BC would obviously be mentioned.

    ef9turbo- If you are a LEO now, stay safe, and post more, especially if you like to shoot pictures.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ef9turbo View Post
    Okay, I see where everyone else is coming from, and again I have zero affiliation with Griffin. This is my first official review of anything and after testing out the comp, I felt that the world needs to know about another product. I was not a believer in comps because I've never tried one. I'm sure Battlecomp has a strong showing at national boards, hell I've even emailed them, and I have a friend who is sponsored by them. I'm not here to compare them to any other comp, I'm here to post a review as I promised I would.

    This is one reason I rarely post at national boards, peoe always find something to pick at. If the mods think I'm affiliated or that this review is out of line, please delete it. As long as I kept my promise and stated how I felt about the comp, that's all that matters.

    Eli
    It seems to me that you did a fine job reviewing a new product on the market. It's one of the things that M4C is good for, user reviews of gear people might be interested in. I read back through the thread and didn't find anyone calling you out as a shill or anything, but it's hard not to be suspicious when someone's first post is a good review of a new product followed by posts from a vendor of said product. So try not to take the discussion comparing the M4E to the BC personally. M4C welcomes any user who takes the time to share their findings with the other users here.

    BCE has been quite active on this board and has supported those here as we have supported them. They put out a quality product and have exemplary customer service. Given the wide variety of relatively unique compensator and brake designs on the market, when one comes around that looks and is given to act much like the BC, as opposed to one of a new or original design, people here will likely point that out, in part because of BCE's rep and the user loyalty they have earned, and in part because, well, it's an obvious comparison.

    Again, your review is not in question here. I think it is done well and is informative. The subsequent debate, which is about the product in question and not your review of it, should not keep you from participating in this or any other discussions on the board, nor should it keep you from posting further reviews of other products you use.
    “All falsehood is a mask, and however well made the mask may be, with a little attention we may always distinguish it from the true face.”

    State of Franklin Training Group

  10. #30
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    BTW Stick, those pictures I took were with lots of sunlight, approx noon with my iPhone 4 . Nothing compared to your pictures but decent for what I had at the time.

    I do semi amateur photography and will try to get pics up later

    Eli

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