New trigger?

[556]

You got a good one (congrats). They usually shoot out first stage in the first couple thousand rounds.


C4

I have RRA 2 stage's on a couple of my play/hunting AR's. No problems so far and they both have exceeded the couple of thousand round mark.

I also have a Timney and a Chip Mc on a couple of my 3 gun rifles. The Timney has a pretty light hammer strike and I would be really hesitant to put it in a work rifle, it breaks a 2lbs 6oz. The CM is ok and breaks 3lbs 9oz and has a heavier hammer spring.Both of these rifles have passed the 5K mark.

My AR pistol sports a JP trigger with the tact. springs. It breaks a just over 4.5lbs. I like it ok, no bitches.

My go too 6920 has a CM trigger. However my wifes go to 6520 i left with the stock trigger. Go figure........ wonder what my sub mind is thinking!!!

Triggers don't bother me too much 2 stage or single stage, I can usuall shoot well with most. As long as they break clean - tough shots are made easier.

[kel3at]

I've been holding off on this, but still trying to understand why anyone would want a 2 stage trigger in a CQB weapon. For what purpose?

2 stage triggers are for varmints, and paper punching IMO, regardless of what the Military is using. They're also using Bushmaster products, and went to the inferior 9mm. OK, if you really think you're going to need a head shot at 200 yds with your carbine....Peace!



Thanks!

Tack

Try the Geissele Hi-speed and you will change your mind. I just replaced my RRA 2-stage on one of my rifles with the Geissele and there is no comparing the two. The Geissele is a two-stage but when shooting multiple rounds quickly you cannot tell its a two stage trigger, it feels like a fast crisp single stage. But when you want to shoot slow and accurate its a better two stage than the RRA hands down. I dont know how to explain, you have to try one out for yourself.

[toddackerman]

Try the Geissele Hi-speed and you will change your mind. I just replaced my RRA 2-stage on one of my rifles with the Geissele and there is no comparing the two. The Geissele is a two-stage but when shooting multiple rounds quickly you cannot tell its a two stage trigger, it feels like a fast crisp single stage. But when you want to shoot slow and accurate its a better two stage than the RRA hands down. I dont know how to explain, you have to try one out for yourself.

Not questioning the quality of the Geissele products. I'd love to see a single stage from them. Anyone know where to find their "Service Trigger" they mention?

I'm asking why would someone opt for a very expensive 2- stage trigger on a CQB kit, when a properly tuned single stage, made from quality materials (like Timney is trying to pull off) can be set at 4# (more than safe in my book, the Geissele is 3# loaded)...other than an occasional head shot at 200 yds. My CQB setup has a 2MOA which can't even see something further than that, so the trigger is a mute point. For Tactical Rifles (sniping) can definitely see the need for a 2- stage.

Here's what is advertised for the Geissele trigger.....

The Geissele DMR Rifle Trigger Pull Weights: First Stage: 1.3 - 3 pounds (2 pounds nominal) Second Stage: 0.5 to 1.5 pounds The Geissele Hi-Speed Designated Marksman Rifle Trigger is designed for tactical and military shooting where trigger pull weight is not regulated. The Geissele DMR Trigger includes all the Geissele standard features: Lightning fast lock time Separate sear adjustment for a sharp 2nd stage Independent 2nd stage weight adjustment Overtravel adjustment Wire EDM cut sear surfaces for a smooth, precise pull. The Geissele DMR trigger combines the light 1st stage of the Match trigger with the more robust 2nd stage weight of our Service trigger. Perfect for all precision tactical shooting and squad Designated Marksmen, the higher 2nd stage weight helps in high stress shooting situations. Although the Geissele DMR trigger is not select fire the smooth pull allows an experienced shooter to fire at a rate exceeding 400 RPM which will empty a 30 round M16 magazine in 4.5 seconds.

What really has me scratching my head, is that the Geissle 2 stage trigger goes up to a 3# pull, and some believe that 4# on a single stage is "Too Light" for a "Serious Weapon" in a stres situation.


I have had 2- stage triggers, and they serve a purpose, but I'm still not convinced they're better for CQB. My CQB AR was just re-insured for $2800.00, so it's not the price that I'm objecting to. I guess I just like the KISS concept...a lot!

Tack

[TWR]

Does anyone know if the new Geisselle "poorman's" trigger will come in large pin sizes for Colt's?

[toddackerman]

Does anyone know if the new Geisselle "poorman's" trigger will come in large pin sizes for Colt's?

I'd love to see the Geisselle single stage that is coming out in December per Grant's post. If it's as high quality as the rest of the Geisselle products...I'm in!

Now I just need to try it to see if it's crisper than a standard USGI. I'll bet it will be, and I can forget about having to defend a "Tuned USGI Trigger".

Tack

[TWR]

Tack, I maybe confused but I thought it was a non adjustable 2 stage?

I really don't know Jack about triggers and reliability but here's what I've found, I hunt with my AR's so keep that in mind.

After starting off with a Colt stock trigger I did the 15 minute trigger job and was really pleased with it until I tried a Millazzo. The Millazzo belongs to a friend who's had it since they first came out, it's never failed or needed to be adjusted and is by far the nicest trigger I've tried.

Since I couldn't find one I opted for a Jewell and it was nice but definately second choice and after having a light primer strike I sold it.

I have 3 RR NM triggers, they work fine for me but could be improved upon. The interesting thing is everyone says they're not reliable yet they also say they're more reliable than a worked stock trigger. The other thing is they just lose the first stage and still make the gun go bang. I have to wonder if it's just a sales pitch? Most everything is anymore, I'm sure the Geisselle is a fine trigger, so is the Millazzo and for most the part, the RR NM ain't that bad.

Again my background is more Fudd than Fife but if I was kicking in doors, I wouldn't worry too much about my trigger but the persons trigger behind me with his weapon pointed in my general direction. I'd want him to have a solid, heavy trigger pull so he didn't shoot me in the butt by accident. The 2 stage trigger has a longer pull but I think you're right, it has no place in a CQB carbean. Different tools for different jobs.

You don't have to defend your trigger to anybody here but if you're involved in a shooting (at least in OK) it better be stock or you better have a good lawyer. Without going into too much detail, my cousin was involved in such and his gun went to OSBI for inspection, he was told any modifications to the trigger system would not be good. Not trying to get out of my lane just passing along first hand info, I saw the sticker on the side of his gun and asked why?

[toddackerman]

Tack, I maybe confused but I thought it was a non adjustable 2 stage?

I really don't know Jack about triggers and reliability but here's what I've found, I hunt with my AR's so keep that in mind.

After starting off with a Colt stock trigger I did the 15 minute trigger job and was really pleased with it until I tried a Millazzo. The Millazzo belongs to a friend who's had it since they first came out, it's never failed or needed to be adjusted and is by far the nicest trigger I've tried.

Since I couldn't find one I opted for a Jewell and it was nice but definately second choice and after having a light primer strike I sold it.

I have 3 RR NM triggers, they work fine for me but could be improved upon. The interesting thing is everyone says they're not reliable yet they also say they're more reliable than a worked stock trigger. The other thing is they just lose the first stage and still make the gun go bang. I have to wonder if it's just a sales pitch? Most everything is anymore, I'm sure the Geisselle is a fine trigger, so is the Millazzo and for most the part, the RR NM ain't that bad.

Again my background is more Fudd than Fife but if I was kicking in doors, I wouldn't worry too much about my trigger but the persons trigger behind me with his weapon pointed in my general direction. I'd want him to have a solid, heavy trigger pull so he didn't shoot me in the butt by accident. The 2 stage trigger has a longer pull but I think you're right, it has no place in a CQB carbean. Different tools for different jobs.

You don't have to defend your trigger to anybody here but if you're involved in a shooting (at least in OK) it better be stock or you better have a good lawyer. Without going into too much detail, my cousin was involved in such and his gun went to OSBI for inspection, he was told any modifications to the trigger system would not be good. Not trying to get out of my lane just passing along first hand info, I saw the sticker on the side of his gun and asked why?

You're probably right about the new Geisselle trigger coming out. I though it was a single stage because of the reference to "USGI ruggedness", but I re-read about it being "non-adjustable", so it probably is a 2 stage. Does this mean that the adjustable 2-stage isn't "USGI rugged"? Probably for DMR, but not for a carbine.? I don't know.

I would be very interested in a "High Quality", single stage trigger that is "crisp" with no creep, and reliable right out of the box. Actually I don't care if it's 4#'s (if in fact 4#'s can be justified as "Too Light" for serious use other than using the rationale that the reason it's too light is due to an operators' lack of trigger control.) If the 4#'s is an issue relating to "Safety" I.e., going full auto, then someone still needs to tell me how it could. I'm always wanting the utmost in a safe weapon system. My main criteria is not weight...it's "Creep". If the 4# trigger is deemed unreliable, would increasing the spring tension make it more reliable? I could be very happy with a 6# single stage if it's "Crisp".

I'm starting to get Webster's definition of "Paranoia" on this ("Fear of the Unreal"), but after all the trigger work I've had over 25 years, I don't think it makes a weapon unreliable, in and of itself. A "Bad" trigger job with "Inferior Parts" does, and that's why I would be interested in a single stage from Geisselle, or other like quality suppliers. I would have thought Timney would have gotten this right with their reputation in the trigger world.

I still haven't seen a logical post on this that is helping me, and by looking at the engagement surfaces of my worked 4# trigger, there is a lot of bearing surface between the hammer and trigger. How could it "Let Go" without pressing the trigger? The only answer could be that the bearing surfaces wear to a point that they "Can't" engage any longer, and THEN I would have a problem.

I'm definitely concerned about this because of many of the posts on this thread, and I check the hammer, trigger and disconnector surfaces at every cleaning cycle, as well as the weight of pull. I have 800 rounds on it so far with no problems. I wish I could say it was 5,000 so I could relax a little on this. There have been other posters on TOS that have had 5,000 rounds without a problem, and the one who "DID" was due to a poor quality disconnector (as discussed earlier on in this thread), but it's that "one" that concerns me.

Regarding the OK state issue with a modified weapon...I can't really comment except to say that if the shooting is justifiable per an individuals state statutes, it doesn't matter if it's a modified "Louisville Slugger", or a modified rifle that drops them. Where I live, we have a "Castle Law" that says if they come through the door you can drop them without having to prove their intentions. It's also known as the "Make my day law".

[TWR]

Tack my cousin was working as a deputy, us lucky civi's can use a a hammer and a nail to set off a primer as long as it's justifiable.

[toddackerman]

Tack my cousin was working as a deputy, us lucky civi's can use a a hammer and a nail to set off a primer as long as it's justifiable.

Understood.