$500 ready to spend

**mhanna91** · 06-06-11, 17:02

Originally Posted by Boxerglocker

Sorry, have to burst your bubble Mark. The reality I have learned and witnessed is in most cases using a single stage you'll actually have the more likely potential to miss something.
A LCT can be used just like a single stage but you have the advantage of higher production putting out one round ever 4 pulls. The round does not leave the case holder till completed. Same with a progressive once set up you just watch your powder drops and do a quality check every 50 or 100 rounds. I started on a LCT, moved to 2 SDB's and now a XL650 have well over 130K rounds loaded in 4 and a half years with zero issues. I load 2.5K a month in 9mm 500-700 of .223, have loaded .380 and .45 ACP and .40 S&W as well. Your statement regarding QC using a SS is IMO very misleading, it is not always the case. That depends on the individual and his/her aptitude for learning the processes and their personal attention to detail.

Your not bursting any bubbles dude. That is your opinion and I'm sure the OP appreciates you sharing it. You are obviously a more experienced reloader than I, but my experiences differ from what you seem to have experienced. I am, however, curious to hear why you think I would be more likely to miss a potential problem on my single stage than I would with a progressive press.

Stay safe and have fun,

Mark

**Boxerglocker** · 06-06-11, 17:13

Originally Posted by mhanna91

Your not bursting any bubbles dude. That is your opinion and I'm sure the OP appreciates you sharing it. You are obviously a more experienced reloader than I, but my experiences differ from what you seem to have experienced. I am, however, curious to hear why you think I would be more likely to miss a potential problem on my single stage than I would with a progressive press.

Stay safe and have fun,

Mark

The whole reloading block process requires having to handle the cartridges constantly removing them for the block to the press... if you think about it it's all statistical averages.... the more you handle to either remove, place a case in the press after switching dies for another step the MORE likely you'll get distracted and miss one thing or another. With a progressive all stations loaded once it's set-up and running and you do have an issue, you simply assess. Clear the issue and move on.... I do however have a preference for auto-indexing presses, between the manual and auto... my believe the auto is safer, far less likely to double charge.

**chadbag** · 06-06-11, 17:26

Originally Posted by mhanna91

Your not bursting any bubbles dude. That is your opinion and I'm sure the OP appreciates you sharing it. You are obviously a more experienced reloader than I, but my experiences differ from what you seem to have experienced.

Not to dwell on this, but you did say I believe that you don't have a progressive, so you are NOT speaking from experience.

I am, however, curious to hear why you think I would be more likely to miss a potential problem on my single stage than I would with a progressive press.

As he explained, you are screwing around with things and touching things and changing things out much more and more often.

Just because you (generic you) have a progressive, it does not mean you have to start trying to crank out as many rounds as possible as quickly as you can. You go at your speed and operate in a safe manner, doing one round at a time to start, learning about reloading. As you get better and more confident in your ability, you can go faster and get more ammo for a given amount of time.

Back when I used a single stage (yes, I started that way as I had no one to help me figure out what I really should have bought to start) I stopped loading 223 and 9mm and stuff on it as it took too long to create an amount of ammo I could shoot in my AR or my USP in a short amount of time. I would load mainly 6.5x55, 303, 308, etc on it and buy most of my 223 and 9mm and 40. Now, I load it all as I can spend a few hours and get a whole case of two worth of ammo done in short order.

Stay safe and have fun,

Mark

**shootist~** · 06-06-11, 17:56

Originally Posted by markm

Do you need to chamfer and debur after the dillon trims your brass?

It depends on how much you need to trim off. If trimming fired .223 brass more than about .008" I usually deburr the inside of the case mouth. If trimming less than ~.008", I see (and feel) no rim on the inside. A really minor rim is probably removed by tumbling off the lube, anyway. (Caveat ; I load almost as many semi-precision loads as practice loads, so I'm a little anal on brass QC.)

If trimming more than about .012", or maybe a little more, I will chamfer as well, but I never see this much stretch unless I'm processing 5.56 brass.

The Dillon electric trimmer is a good machine and of course can be used to size and trim in the same step; assuming the case mouth is not dinged to hell like my factory new LC brass. [I prefer to size in a single stage and just use the Dillon to trim and let it re-touch the case neck, however.]

The Giraud seems to be the Cadillac trimmer and that's what I would buy should the Dillon ever bite the dust, (not likely).

On initial loaders for a neubie, I've been reloading since Christ was a Corporal and see absolutely no reason to not start on a basic progressive such as the Dillon 550B. High volume loading on a single stage sucks, (as does getting started on a budget). The 550 will load one at a time just as well as a single stage, while you are learning.

Having said that, a single stage press, preferably a quality turret press (IMO), is a very useful tool to have. Buy a good one and it will last a lifetime. Mine gets a lot of use despite having two Dillon progressives; a 1050 and a 650.

**mhanna91** · 06-06-11, 18:07

Before I bought my gear, I spent time on a Hornady Lock 'n' Load AP as well as a couple different 550s. I did not see the need for a press like those for what I do. As someone stated in a recent thread about some recalled Remington ammunition blowing up a rifle on TOS, lots of people stay away from reloading because of perceived danger. In my experiences, machines can be reliable but you just never know. But hell, thats probably the farm boy coming out of me. Thats why I like the single stage, it is the least reliant on mechanical devices. My biggest problem is with the powder charge station on the progressive presses and the mechanism involved. Each time I seat a bullet, I visually confirm that there is a powder charge in the case, which I put there by hand and weiged to 1/10th of a grain. Let's go into statistics. If a guy quality checks his reloads 1 in every 50 or 100 rounds, then he is making an inference from a sample of 1 that all 50 or 100 rounds are good. If you check every round at more than 1 stage in the prcess, including visual confirmation of powder charge, you are no longer inferring from a sample. You are moving into descriptive statistics, where you have knowlege of EVERY round in the pile. Thus, the probability of having a problem due to human error is much lower, if not 0. Atleast by my logic. I'm not saying you can't check your stuff just because you load on a progressive, but it would sort of defeat the purpose of having such a machine. Anyways, I know what works for me and you guys know what works for you. Thats why I never shoot another person's reloads and try to stay away from factory ammo as much as I can. What works for someone else may not work for me and visa-vresa. And I would not suggest anybody shoot my reloads either, because I am responsible for what is in each and every case. If someone's gun blew up with my ammo in it, thats on me.

Stay safe guys,

Mark

**chadbag** · 06-06-11, 18:07

Originally Posted by shootist~

On initial loaders for a neubie, I've been reloading since Christ was a Corporal and see absolutely no reason to not start on a basic progressive such as the Dillon 550B. High volume loading on a single stage sucks, (as does getting started on a budget). The 550 will load one at a time just as well as a single stage, while you are learning.

and just to reiterate, Dillon now sells the BL 550

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/con...0_Basic_Loader

Which is an RL 550B frame without all the "progressive" elements like powder measure etc that you can set up more like a turret press. $259.95 plus $44.95 for a conversion kit. So a little over $300. And when the time comes, you can buy upgrade kits that will turn it into an RL 550B.

This is a way to stick to a budget and expand later and be able to take advantage of multi station set up etc now.

**chadbag** · 06-06-11, 18:09

Originally Posted by mhanna91

My biggest problem is with the powder charge station on the progressive presses and the mechanism involved. Each time I seat a bullet, I visually confirm that there is a powder charge in the case,

I visually confirm the powder on my progressives, except for 223 since the case mouth is so small and it is hard to see in there, so I use a powder check system to do it for me (and I manually look at that).

Nothing says that you can't visually check each piece of brass for powder on a progressive.