
Originally Posted by
sagmill
Gents,
The SSF, SSA, SD-C and S2S are COMBAT triggers. They are designed to be reliable in all conditions and suitable for stress shooting situations. Under stress, fine motor skills degrade. If these triggers had crisp breaks the 2nd stage could not be controlled when under stress.
In this video that Underwhere put online you can see the carrot like break in operation. He comes up to the stop and during the break you see the trigger move back a fair amount. On one of the triggers you see a stop/start movement. This is due to the milled sear that is rougher than our edm sears.
I think Underwhere sent his trigger in to our shop and I looked at it. It had this stop/start break. I took a stone to the sear and it went away. The 2nd stage sear engagement was right where it should be. By stoning I put "rounds" on the trigger, just shooting it would have done the same thing.
The Geissele COMBAT triggers have the carrot like break. In the edm cut combat triggers the sear surfaces slide across each other very smoothly, once they start moving they don't stop. On the milled sear the rougher surfaces may or may not stop once they get moving.
There is creep in our combat triggers because of significant sear engagement. I designed the SSF, SSA, SD-C and S2S combat triggers with this significant sear engagement and therefore designed creep into the trigger. Say Again: I designed creep into these triggers. I did it deliberately.
This creep does a couple of things: It makes the trigger reliable under high round counts, it allows abrasive wear to occur without compromising the function of the trigger, it helps proper operation in full automatic weapons (timing during automatic fire) and it enables the trigger to be used properly under high stress.
If the creep was not designed into the trigger the trigger could not be controlled in a combat environment.
The shooter perceives the creep as a consistent carrot like break on our edm triggers. There is no stop/start or objectionable feel because of the smooth, isotropic (non-directional) surface finish of the edm'ed surface.
A milled finish has direction to it, kind of like furrows in a farm field, or ripples from throwing a stone into a pond. This directional finish is from the rotating cutter with teeth that digs into the metal and pulls a chip out. On a microscopic scale these furrows can interfere with each other and be perceived by the shooter as roughness or stop/start movement.
So why mill a sear instead of cut the sear on an edm? In one word: time. Time=Money and therefore Money=Time. Milling is 30 to 50 times faster than edm and an extra $250,000 edm machine is not needed. (the triggers have to be on the milling machine anyway).
The S2S is designed to a price point. This is why the sears are milled, because milling is faster and if I can get the triggers off the mill quickly and not have to put them on the edm I can offer a reliable, well performing trigger cheaper than our edm'ed triggers. But you give something up for a lower price and what is given up is the beautiful, smooth, frosted glass-like sear and velvetly pull of our SSA. The pull of the $125 S2S is good but not at the same level of the $170 SSA.
Going back to how the break feels on our triggers: If the shooter wants a crisp break he needs to decide what his stress level will be when shooting. If low stress he is TARGET shooting (sorry about all the caps but I want to make a point). If high stress he is COMBAT shooting.
If Underwhere was getting shot at, his S2S trigger will feel like a glass rod when it breaks and he will be able to control that break so he can put rounds where they need to go when the proverbial buffalo chips are hitting the fan and his buddies and Nation are counting on him.
If underwhere is in his basement drinking a cool one, listening to the radio and messing with his guns and cool stuff his S2S may very well show some creep.
For TARGET shooting when the shooter desires a crisp trigger our Hi-Speed Match trigger is the way to go. With the adjusted in 6oz break, 0.003 thou sear 2nd stage sear engagement, glass like sear finishes, trigger bow moved forward 3/16" and to top it off a 4.4 millisecond lock time the Geissele Hi-Speed trigger will read the shooters mind when he wants that hammer to drop.
To summarize: If you want a crisp break buy the Hi-Speed. If you want non-adjustability and crispness buy an SSA-E or SD-E. If you want a crisp 2nd stage break and you bought an S2S, SSA, SSF or SD-C you very well may be disappointed. You bought the wrong trigger and you are asking it to do something it was not designed to do.
Well I hoped this reply helped somehow. Let me know if anyone has any other questions and I'll try and answer them. I don't get on this board too often so you might want to email me directly. I better get to bed now because tomorrow I am practicing for the new NDM (National Defense Match) at Camp Perry.
I am shooting a stock Colt 6940 with an SSA trigger. I expect my stress level to be kind of high when that shot timer is running......
WHG
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