View Poll Results: Rank each S2S trigger you own....

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  • 5 Star

    12 44.44%
  • 4 Star

    9 33.33%
  • 3 Star

    4 14.81%
  • 2 Star

    1 3.70%
  • 1 Star

    1 3.70%
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Thread: Geissele's new Super 2 Stage trigger (S2S).....

  1. #41
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    The two stage trigger was developed to reduce unintentional discharges from the rough handling infantry rifles receive on the battlefield. When a rifle is jarred, it can cause the sear to bounce, releasing the hammer or striker as the distance needed to release the sear is very short.

    A two stage trigger prevents the sear from being released if it bounces when the rifle is jarred. Other trigger features to prevent sear release when the rifle is jarred is a heavy trigger pull and a long sear engagement. Many military triggers use the two stage trigger design, heavy pull and a long sear engagement. FALs, for example, are notorious for heavy, two stage triggers with lots of creep, breaking around 8-12 lbs.

    Another way the two stage provides safety is that the initial stage gives a tactile warning that the trigger is being pressed. It is to give a shooter under stress time to back off the trigger if it's being inadvertently pressed. (This is NOT a substitute for keeping the trigger finger outside the guard.)

    Other than National Match Service Rifle, two stage triggers are rarely encountered in competition as most feel the single stage disturbs the rifle less than a two stage. I do not believe this is always the case.

    A clean predictable break is far more important to precise shooting than the number of stages the trigger has. A two stage, especially one with a long reset like the Geiselle has, trades speed for an increased margin of safety. Whether or not that increased margin is needed, only the shooter can decide

    About "good triggers". A good trigger is one that is reliable and predictable. Reliability means it fires every time and predictable means it performs and feels the same way every time it's pressed. Smooth is what makes a good trigger (reliable & predictable) better. A good trigger is still a good trigger and doesn't always need to be replaced with a better one.

    A trigger that's reliable but with an unpredictable pull is merely acceptable. An unreliable trigger is a poor one and should be replaced.

    A better trigger will not make one a better shooter, nor is it a crutch. It's just better and makes it easier for novice and expert alike to shoot their rifle well. Easier enough to justify upgrading a good trigger? That call is up to the individual and the only way to know is to shoot
    Last edited by MistWolf; 07-22-11 at 18:56.
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  2. #42
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    I picked up 3 of these S2S's today from the post office.
    Just finished dropping 2 of them in some of my completed rifles.

    Installation:
    Easy. It's a normal trigger install with the addition of the retaining clip. The clip itself goes on in less than half a second (push it on) and the only tricky part is getting the pins through the receiver but that is really not any different than a normal trigger.

    The uninstall of the old and the install of the S2S took me about 5 minutes per rifle.

    The trigger experience:
    Geissele may need to work a bit on their QA because my two triggers feel different. One of them does have a bit of grit and creep right before the break. The other trigger seems clean and perfect.

    My brother who is much more sensitive to this stuff is on his way over and I'll have him feel the difference and give his opinion as well. Probably won't put the trigger in his rifle tonight. I hope that his trigger doesn't feel different than the first two.

    It is an improvement over the stock GI trigger however. (Though I do have a very nice GI trigger I happened to get in a factory Stag LPK).
    I am looking forward to having half the lock up time of the GI trigger.

    My qualifications:
    Firearms instructor, action pistol competitor, garage warrior gunsmith.

    I don't claim to be a trigger guru. I do my own trigger work and I don't make a big deal about it. I don't nitpick unless something is obvious and I don't use triggers as an excuse for poor shooting.

    I currently have the Geissele SD-E in my 308 and it is very nice. I like it a lot. In comparison the SD-E is clearly a more refined trigger.

    Fit and Finish:
    Not as nice as my SD-E but I was expected that. Comes as advertised and I can ask for no more. After removing them from the bags I considered for a brief second that maybe I should have just forked over the money and gone SSA but I want to give them a chance first. As long as they function as advertised then the way they look really doesn't matter to me.

    Shooting:
    Unfortunately I'm away for the next 2 weeks and won't get to shoot with them.

    Last edited by Underwhere; 07-23-11 at 02:24.

  3. #43
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    Did you grease your triggers prior to installation? Without it, Geisselle triggers feel gritty
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    A two stage trigger compared to a single stage for an AR isn't a trade-off of speed for precision but speed for safety
    With the safety features built into the AR Gold or the Wilson TTU, it's hard to say if a two stage is safer than those single stages. But those SS's run over $250 per if I'm not mistaken.

    Stock single stages are just long, gritty, heavy pulls with a lot of sear contact, so their not terribly prone to dropping a hammer unless the triger is pulled, either from poor discipline or snagging on something. And I don't think a two stage Geissle or any other two stage is immune from discharging when snagged hard enough, at least not from what I've seen.

    When you get into the realm of better (or even average) two stages (Geissele, X-treme, RRAs/tuned RRAs, Armalite NM), you are paying for precison, at least in my mind. Not sure where a LMT stacks up in this mix.

  5. #45
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    underwhere....thank you very much for your contribution to this thread

    You very well may now be the world's foremost expert on them as the proud owner of three. The one in my MRP CQB is really something else, it just replaced the last KAC 2stager I ran that was I felt honestly perfect and I'm on record as saying a number of times that it was like the perfect SSA since it was factory adjusted and set and already feels so much like the SSA's pull to begin with...basically just slightly refining the SSA's pull. It's got the absolute most perfect wall and break for anybody to love but it's esp. forgiving for anyone who is timid and scared this might be some kinda hair trigger.

    Also, this isn't the trigger that you just put in your lowest horse in the stable, or only made for first timers or anything like that...I tried to illustrate that w. 600-800yd steel shooting This trigger is not one that you will "grow" out of and soon find yourselves wanting the more expensive models.

    I'm a connoisseur for anything that has a G on the side of the trigger...and I truly now believe them all to be equal in terms of just overwhelming attn. to detail, reliability, safety, and just awesome feeling pulls.
    Last edited by ALCOAR; 07-22-11 at 20:46.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    Did you grease your triggers prior to installation? Without it, Geisselle triggers feel gritty
    Yep. Greased.
    But like I said I'm not as sensitive as my brother is to this stuff. He just pulled in the driveway. The gritty one is only very slightly gritty. It's actually has a tiny bit of creep that the other one doesn't have.

    If after installing the 3rd one, this one with slight creep/grit still stands out then I might consider calling Geissele to see what they say.

    It's interesting to receive multiple triggers to compare them side by side...really a test of their consistency.
    Last edited by Underwhere; 07-22-11 at 20:55.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRIDENT82 View Post
    underwhere....thank you very much for your contribution to this thread

    You very well may now be the world's foremost expert on them as the proud owner of three.

    Also, this isn't the trigger that you just put in your lowest horse in the stable, or only made for first timers or anything like that...I tried to illustrate that w. 600-800yd steel shooting This trigger is not one that you will "grow" out of and soon find yourselves wanting the more expensive models.
    Well simply because I have 3 (one is my brother's) doesn't mean I'm an expert...You can have all the toys in the world and shoot like crap. I have seen it many times.

  8. #48
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    My brother arrived and picked up the good one (I didn't tell him which).
    Then picked up the creep/grit one and instantly said "These two don't feel the same. The first one is much better"

    So it looks like I'll test out the 3rd one and see how that goes.

    Neither of them are by any means "bad". But they are different.
    Last edited by Underwhere; 07-22-11 at 21:11.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmart View Post
    With the safety features built into the AR Gold or the Wilson TTU, it's hard to say if a two stage is safer than those single stages. But those SS's run over $250 per if I'm not mistaken.

    Stock single stages are just long, gritty, heavy pulls with a lot of sear contact, so their not terribly prone to dropping a hammer unless the triger is pulled, either from poor discipline or snagging on something. And I don't think a two stage Geissle or any other two stage is immune from discharging when snagged hard enough, at least not from what I've seen.

    When you get into the realm of better (or even average) two stages (Geissele, X-treme, RRAs/tuned RRAs, Armalite NM), you are paying for precison, at least in my mind. Not sure where a LMT stacks up in this mix.
    The trouble with triggers is that, all else being equal, the crisper and lighter the pull, the less reliable they become. Semi-auto triggers are the worst offenders because they are more complicated. It wouldn't surprise me to find out Geisselle uses a two stage design to increase the safety margin enough so the triggers can be set with a crisper, lighter break safely. The short reset (speed) is traded for a greater safety margin (added stage) to allow for an improved pull without a loss of reliability.

    The added safety margin comes from being able to use a sear with less mass which in turn reduces chance of bounce when the weapon is jarred. In the M14/M1 Garand, there is a physical block that keeps the sear from releasing the hammer unless the trigger is pulled through the first stage
    Last edited by MistWolf; 07-22-11 at 21:28.
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  10. #50
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    I couldnt wait. Installed in the third rifle. (3 min)

    There was a bit of creep. Both my brother and i were dry firing and after 15 or so hits the creep suddenly disappeared.

    Very strange but maybe we just cleared some manufacturing burrs or something. When i get home tomorrow im going to try dry firing the problem one some more.

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