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Thread: HK REVERSES DECISION OF NO CIVILIAN 416/417 SALES!

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinB View Post
    Bingo

    I wont be surprised if the MR223 (civilian version) is like that.
    The reason why the SL8 and also the USC were bastardized;

    1. The then laws in effect in Germany did not allow real "black rifles, flash hiders, pistol grips etc.

    2. So they could import them into the U.S.

    The gun laws in Germany have since changed and companies like Sabre Defence and Oberland Arms are selling their weapons with flash hiders, telestocks etc. and even have SBR versions for the German market.

    Also, with the proposed semi auto HK416 and 417 being made/assembled in the U.S., I really dont see why it would be neutered version.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubberneck View Post
    They are an indifferent supporter of the civilian market.
    What guns that they make that are legal to sell in the US civilian market do they not sell?

    They sell everything they legally can, and for the longest time, they were the only ones to provide factory threaded barrels and warranty support for silencers. Does Ruger, Colt, Smith do that? No.

  3. #23
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    I think a lot of their reputation comes from second hand experience of other people. What people read about them. General dislike or discomfort at least for a non-American company, or the fact that they don't sell every firearm in their inventory to everyone. Satisfied customers normally don't complain or sing the praises unless it is above and beyond the required action. I have about 4 HK firearms and I never really had any issues with them. The only time I ever called them I was inquiring about extra USP Tactical cases but they were out of stock and the CS rep pointed me in the direction of a few different online retailers that he said had better prices anyway. I would consider that good customer service personally. AFAIK though I HEAR CS is much better than it used to be since they added or moved civilian stuff to Titusville, Alabama. I haven't experienced it for myself so I won't elaborate beyond that.

    I don't think anyone in their right mind would dispute they make quality weapons. I would like more of them myself, but you have to admit they have been burned just as much if not more than we have with American gun legislature.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    What guns that they make that are legal to sell in the US civilian market do they not sell?

    They sell everything they legally can, and for the longest time, they were the only ones to provide factory threaded barrels and warranty support for silencers. Does Ruger, Colt, Smith do that? No.
    My bitch about H&K has nothing to do with the products they offer. It has everything to do with their shitty attitude towards their civilian customers.

    I will only speak from my personal experience and it wasn't fun. They make some of the best stuff out there, but heaven help you if you have a problem because if my experience is any indication they don't care and it is all your fault anyways. Maybe things have changed but at this point I couldn't care less. Plenty of other options out there to get wrapped around the axle with one manufacturer.

    I really am glad that they have changed their tune about the 416 & 417 as it represents a step in the right direction. As I said before I might consider the 417 at some point but that is about it.

    MerQ, I don't dislike non-American products. My safe has seen it's fair share of Sigs, Glock's, XD's and H&K's over the years. In this case there is only one non-American manufacturer of gas piston AR's of note. Since I am not a fan of that companies CS I would prefer to give my business to a company like LMT who has been pretty good to me so far. YMMV.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by variablebinary View Post
    No offense, but your post is absurd

    HK was a huge supporter of the civilian market and has offered civvy friendly versions of just about everything they make for the military and LEO. They even went as far as to make a neutered version of the G36 and UMP just for regular Joes despite the hurdles of our stupid gun laws.


    How have they ignored Civvy sales? Can you buy a USP, P2000, SL8, USC or P30. Yeah, you sure can and that’s everything permissible by US law. How is that elitist?
    No offense taken.
    My opinion only reflects my own experiences and biases.

    I do not recall saying HK was elitist but since you brought it up.....

    I did not consider the nutered guns and I guess if those were an attempt to stay in the market for "regular Joes" then that is a step in the right direction.

    My biases also stem from the several(firsthand)times that I have tried to obtain timely parts and or service from HK.


    As long as there is ANY other comparable product being made by an American company that has not been an asshole to me when I called for help, I will buy that product first.

  6. #26
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    H&K, for whatever faults they may have, has routinely been screwed over by our gun laws in the US.

    I don't fault them because idiot politicians and the BATFE have tried to keep them from selling anything in our nation.

    Hopefully they can produce the 416 in the US with excellent quality and hopefully it will do well for them.

    I'm not going to rush out and buy one, but to my mind people making and selling more evil "assault" weapons for the civvy market is a GOOD thing.

  7. #27
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    +1 to the above post.


    HK has brought in as much or more cool stuff into the civilian market as anyone, anywhere. They are constantly getting screwed.


    1. Through the 80s they brought in HK91, 93, 94, SP-89 PSG-1, etc. They brought the VP70z, the P7, the P9, etc. Some of the least-politically correct weapons, ever!

    Banned by President HW Bush in 89'. This ban is still in effect.

    2. Ok, then they start bringing in SR-9, and target versions to get around the Bush ban. They got shot down again!

    3. Allright, well at least we can bring in a High-cap plastic pistol. In 93, here comes the USP. 1994...BANNED (well, the mags were).

    4. Well, lets bring in a Civvy G36 and UMP. Sorry HELMUT, American gun companies have managed it so you have to import crippled weapons (via the absurd 89 Exec order and its modifications).

    5. Phew, its 2004, the ban may be going away and we got a cool new weapon, the 416. Oh no! The Germnans have a law against exporting weapons of warfare! Woah, American cities are suing all the gun manufacturers. Err..let me think about it.

    6. Oh hell no! Now the DOJ has banned the import of barrels. Something even the ATF finds obnoxious. Jeeze.


    I say bravo HK for taking this big step towards suppling the American market with the rifles that our Delta boys say are GTG.
    If you aren't armed when you take a dump in your own home then your opinion on what is a practical daily carry weapon isn't interesting to me.

  8. #28
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    This is an exciting development. In a few years time we could conceivably be comparing, side by side, weapons like the HK416, Colt 1020, LMT Piston MRP, Masada, SCAR, AUG clones, FN2000, XCR, SIG 556 and a number of high quality 'legacy' ARs. Assuming, of course, we don't blow it and let Clinton 2.0 ruin it all.

    HK has been handed the poopy end of the stick (legally speaking) several times, there is no doubt about that. Everytime they get a product line put together to expand their presence in the US market, the rules change. I almost cringe to think what would happen if the they introduce the 416 and 417 in 2008, and they are banned 6 months later. We'll probably never see an HK long gun again.

    However, my main beef with HK has always been how they support the customer after the initial purchase. Widely available spare parts and timely customer service have not been HKs strong suits. When I worked at a range, we'd pretty much have to throw away any HKs that broke. The chances of getting a spare part or getting it fixed by HK were slim to none. When a Glock broke, we could have it back up and running in 15 minutes. The parts were so cheap and plentiful, we could keep a tackle box full of them for a nominal cost. If they can turn around that aspect of their business, HK will have much more success. My 2 cents anyway.

  9. #29
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    Give me a Masada instead. Still cool though.
    The luxury of freedom was not free.

  10. #30
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    Are you assuming the Evil Democrats will win 08'?....I dont think so!
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