Emergency Reloads - dropping or ripping?

**Scotter260** · 06-22-11, 01:34

I searched and searched but don't know if I'm using the correct terminology and haven't found that for which I search.

My question has to do with the concern over mags dropping free from lower receivers.

I used to just drop mags from either pistol or carbine however over the last couple of years I've taken to gripping the baseplate on pistol mags or mag body on carbine mags and tearing them from the gun then in the same motion going for the reload and reloading.

My reason for this is that during qualifications or in the one class I took my mags (mainly Glock pistol mags at the time) would get dirty and while they'd drop free while practicing at home, they wouldn't while at the range/qualification or in that class because they'd get muddy/dirty/etc.

I try to keep both pistol and carbine in the same orientation/position while reloading so the motion and location of where I'm going with the new mag is the same. I also figure if I do one motion regardless of what I'm using it keeps the options and hopefully confusion to a minimum.

Am I wrong in thinking this is a practical approach? My thoughts are I'd prefer to not depend on a mag dropping free only to realize I have to go get it anyway thereby creating a longer delay than would have been caused if I'd have just gotten it in the first place.

Do any instructors endorse this method? Do any recommend against it?

**C45P312** · 06-22-11, 05:09

I shoot about 25000 rounds a year through my glocks and I don't remember the last time I had to rip the magazine out. I assume you don't start with muddy/dirty mags during the qual so why rip them out everytime? I use to push the mag stop after I start turning the pistol for a reload. This didn't work as well because gravity wasn't in my favor. Personally I would let them drop free because it will be a faster reload.

**Failure2Stop** · 06-22-11, 05:41

I've gone back and forth on this a few times in the past.
What I settled on a few years ago was this:

A reload without physically removing the magazine is much faster than the alternative. Not just faster on a timer, but effectively faster to the point that it is potentially a fight changer.

Given that if the magazine fails to drop free (a rare occurence with properly vetted and maintained magazines/weapons) I can just rip the offending magazine out with the hand bringing the new magazine to the weapon anyway, there isn't much of an issue really.

Back when many of us were shooting smaller guns and subguns from a magwell-handstop position there were more than a few instructors that used the mag-rip as additional validation for the grip position. They weren't right about much, as time and experience has proven.

**Surf** · 06-22-11, 12:22

I agree with F2S on all counts. Years back in many fighting schools LE, mil etc, there was indeed many schools of thought for positive manipulations of the weapon. Positive manipulations meaning that the movement ensures the desired effect with the highest amount of reliability. This does not mean fastest or necessarily the most efficient when it comes to movements. For the M4 this might include physically stripping the magazine from the magwell and might also include using the charging handle to release the bolt. Pistol can equate to stripping a magazine but mostly in regards to an overhand or slingshot release of a slide.

However as F2S mentions I too use and teach the method to let gravity or inertia to allow the magazine to be ejected. I don't teach a crazy flip and roll, but if gravity doesn't work for you a small flick creating inertia can be a good thing. Again as mentioned if the weapon and mags are in good working condition this is not an issue. If it does become an issue the hand that is returning to the weapon with a new magazine can assist at that point if there is an issue. The counter argument here might be that it may be more difficult or cumbersome as you are holding another magazine. Or if a mag does have an issue, I can still do a simple flick of the rifle with my primary hand while I am in the motion of retrieving a fresh mag with my support hand. But this may be shooter skill level dependent. Again this is where you need to weigh the factors of how often this may occur vs the speed and efficiency of the reload with a smooth ejection of the magazine which has a high probability to work right each and every time.

I will readily admit that rolling in the mud etc, or even just water from rain "can" create issues for ejection.

**rob_s** · 06-22-11, 12:55

Went through the same cycle and the same conclusions as F2S and Surf, albeit from a "civilian side". I've brought a magazine to the gun in the past and found the empty was still there, both carbine and handgun, an simply pulled the stuck mag free at that moment. It gets somewhat interesting when it's actually a malfunction of some sort and not just a stuck mag, but jamming the fresh mag in the waistband while I deal with the problem seems to work out OK.

**Scotter260** · 06-22-11, 14:14

You're right, I likely wouldn't be starting out with filthy magazines.

Good points all, I appreciate the responses.

**Alaskapopo** · 06-22-11, 16:10

Originally Posted by Failure2Stop

I've gone back and forth on this a few times in the past.
What I settled on a few years ago was this:

A reload without physically removing the magazine is much faster than the alternative. Not just faster on a timer, but effectively faster to the point that it is potentially a fight changer.

Given that if the magazine fails to drop free (a rare occurence with properly vetted and maintained magazines/weapons) I can just rip the offending magazine out with the hand bringing the new magazine to the weapon anyway, there isn't much of an issue really.

Back when many of us were shooting smaller guns and subguns from a magwell-handstop position there were more than a few instructors that used the mag-rip as additional validation for the grip position. They weren't right about much, as time and experience has proven.

I agree I use whatever techniques can make me faster. Faster is better in a gun fight. While Clint Smith may have said there are no timers in a gun fight. The timer is your opponent throwing lead your way.
Pat

**Failure2Stop** · 06-22-11, 17:30

One other thing, if Glock mags are not dropping free, a wipe of ArmorAll will do wonders.

**Axcelea** · 06-22-11, 17:42

Drop or a little force such as shaking or rolling. With extremely poor magazines or mag well it might be better to rip as habit when mags fail to drop as a fair rule of thumb to expect, had this with some cheapo $8 1911 mags where they had little reliability at dropping free and if loaded it pretty much went to 0 chance.

Buy quality mags!