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Thread: The Utility of VFG's

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaneinhisroom View Post
    NEither of these are more useful than 2 VFGs, IMHO.
    If you read my post I have a VFG near the mag well and a AFG near the end of my rail.

    They are 2 completely different ways to hold the rifle. I don't like the AFG for CQB and I don't like the VFG for distance.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11B101ABN View Post
    My training has taught me that the proper response to a weapon grab is lethal force, be is a press contact shot, edged weapon, brick...

    The point is that a weapon grab should be a short lived affair and should end with the grabber leaking red fluids upon the floor or ground.
    The old LEO saying, there will always be at least one gun involved in a fight with a perp. The proper response to a gun grab is definitely deadly force.

  3. #43
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    What is the general thinking about the placement of your VFG.How far forward or back.New to this and have tried several positions to try to get the best feel for me.I have the JP freefloat on my new VTAC and have plenty of room to work with.Any pros or cons to either. Thanks.
    "The Price of Freedom
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  4. #44
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    I don't think there can be any set distance, especially with the issue of everyone having different arm length, flexibility, and posture. Having it as far up without causing discomfort gives better stability for most but closer may be more comfortable, different schemes and themes going on. I myself have it about 6" down the rail from the receiver, maybe 5.

    Play around with it some knowing the reason why people put it where they do and find what works and gives you what you want.

  5. #45
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    I don't use the exaggerated forward grip that you see in 3-gun videos but I do grip further out than I used to.

    I also shorten the stock to about the 2nd click and this allows me to get the gun closer to me and aids in controlling weight and recoil...
    never push a wrench...

  6. #46
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    During a Gunsite MP-5 class in the 80’s I was taught a technique for controlling full-auto fire. The firing grip applied pressure on the pistol grip toward your support side. The support hand held the forend while the support side forearm applied pressure on the magazine, pushing it toward the primary side. Both hands pulled the weapon back into the shoulder. This was the way I shot full auto for years.

    I never liked applying pressure to the magazine with my forearm. When the VFG was introduced I saw it as a way of applying torque without putting pressure on the magazine.

    My full auto shooting style has changed. I still have some VFGs on guns with short forends. I also like them on full-auto piston driven guns. I have one on a F/A gun I shoot from the prone position in a “belt-fed” match. That VFG can be angled, so I set it at a 45 degree forward angle and use it to pull the gun down into the bipod. Seems to work pretty well.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jose45 View Post
    What is the general thinking about the placement of your VFG.How far forward or back.New to this and have tried several positions to try to get the best feel for me.I have the JP freefloat on my new VTAC and have plenty of room to work with.Any pros or cons to either. Thanks.
    for me, i place mine as far forward as i can while still being able to comfortably grab it while shooting in the prone and kneeling. but everyones different. experiment and find what works for you
    Last edited by SMT85; 07-03-11 at 01:46.

  8. #48
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    Another plus to the VFG

    At least in my experience, I have had alot less muscle fatigue using a fore grip than running my rifle "slick" particularly when patroling (Marine Infantry) or holding a long perimeter (Patrol Officer)

    For me it has alot to do with the more natural orientation of the support hand and the smaller diameter surface being gripped when using a VFG. about two years ago I did some fairly in depth training on the slow and deliberate method of clearing and searching buildings - I found that using the issued Rock River Carbines which were in the basic slick configuration that I fatigued much faster than using my own rifle with a VFG.

    Nothing against going slick for certain applications, but in my line of work I preffer the VFG.
    Last edited by Preliator; 08-10-11 at 23:00.

  9. #49
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    I actually kind of like VFGs (shorty ones, like Tango Down, or chopped KAC - which I have 3 of) but I find the following:

    Weapon retention:

    I keep an AR with a handstop, irons, light, and single point sling in my car. I've mentioned it before. 11.1'' KAC gun. It's the beater gun. Used for training. Has a can on it. Which is only because I can still deploy it quickly, and I don't want to take off the comp for a KAC FH, due to the fact that I do shoot it suppressed 100% of the time I do shoot it. The single point sling is in the car, center console, detached from the gun, but there if I need it. Along with spare magazines.

    If the gun was grabbed from me, I'd have two other means of fighting on my person: Glock 19, and a Gerber LMF knife. If they grabbed the gun, they wouldn't have optimal position nor space to grab the pistol grip, and gain space before I could grab my Glock 19, or knife - I would have the close quarter advantage here. An aggressive mindset further aids this, and nothing makes me more aggressive than having either my life threatened or the life of a loved one.

    At home, once again: I've have at least a pistol on me, and my rifle would be attached to me. The rifle is my second line of defence, so if I had enough time to get the rifle, I'd have slung it, and not have dropped my pistol. One day I'll figure out a way to mount a knife on an IWB/OWB kydex holster.

    One again: the close quarter advantage is there, perhaps even more so if the gun is attached to my very body.

    Leverage on cover: I don't have much difficulty doing this with a handstop, and can actually pull the gun to my body with about the same leverage as with a handstop.

    But I must say, you make solid points.
    Last edited by Magic_Salad0892; 08-11-11 at 03:41.
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  10. #50
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    I have different guns set up for different purposes and I use a VFG or AFG or even slick, depending on the purpose of the rifle.

    the concept of the AFG is to allow a grip that does not require canting the wrist from the natural position. putting it on a 7" or 9" rail is dumb and I use a VFG on these. however, as I extend my hand forward on a longer rail, the angle of my wrist decreases relative to the horizontal axis of the rail and the AFG begins to make sense.

    with my support grip, I don't shoot with the thumb-over the rail or the "C" grip as it's called, but with my thumb extended forward like shooting a pistol, riding on the top of the side rail.

    on my 14.5" DDM4 with carbine gas (7") and DD 12" FSP rail mounting a light at 12 o'clock, the AFG allows me to take a hand position forward of the front sight and gives good access to the light. this is my primary HD gun and run it with the CTR stock collapsed down to the second notch. this moves the entire gun closer in to my body with the weight more between the hands. I suppose a VFG used as a handstop could work as well but I haven't found one yet that is as comfortable in this configuration.

    on my 16" LW midlength with Centurion cut-out rail and G2X light mounted beside the front sight at 10-11 o'clock, it requires a closer hand position. with this rail and my grip style, I prefer the stubbier Magpul RVG over the longer/skinnier VFGs. this is as close to a "patrol"/general purpose rifle as I have, and what I use for training, range use, etc...

    on an 11.5" carbine with 7" rail and light mounted at 4-5 o'clock, I prefer the long skinny knight's VFG mounted almost all the way forward on the rail. this requires a "beer-can" grip but keeps my fingers away from all the hot and nasty bits on the gun.

    and finally, on a 16" Recce/DMR style, with a 1-4x24 scope and 11" Troy Extreme rail, I don't use any VFG at all. I do have a rail chunk on the bottom about where I would put a VFG if I wanted one, but the slimmness of this rail with my first two fingers in front of the rail chunk allow a great hold as is. this is my "game" gun and I sometimes throw a Grippod on there for shooting prone but in reality, I almost never use it...
    Last edited by ra2bach; 08-11-11 at 13:20.
    never push a wrench...

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