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I tried them, got away from them and came back around to them.
The 2 big reasons were it makes it easier for me to run lights/lasers with a VFG because it provides better control of the weapon when I have to compromise my support grip to manipulate the switches and having taken Kyle's Steetfighter class I saw the value of using it for unconventional or asymetrical shooting positions.
Whereas most instructors teach positions as a compromise between stability & mobility; Kyle teaches that shooting positions are a compromise between ability to shoot the target and exposure from the enemy's ability to shoot you.
The Magpul MVG and RVG are my new favorite VFG, for the low price and minimal weight penalty I see no reason not to run a VFG for the added capabillity.
I saw the transition from irons to Acogs. As a CMC (or PMI or CMI whatever the heck its called) I also had to learn how to train Marines with irons and Acogs and go through multiple KD ranges with both.
That said, when you get to 500 yards on a breezy Hawaiian afternoon (25 mph winds or more) on QUAL day when the previous 3 days have been tranquill the ACOG is a definite disadvantage. Qual day sucks because at 300 and 500 yards you are almost throwing your first or 2nd shots away just to get a wind call. (One day I had to put the "5" tic mark on the bottom right corner of the target to my left in order to hit black)
That said, I still shot 241 without pit love using the ACOG but that was a solid 5 points lower than my irons score which is due to a miss. Its not impossible, I guess I'm just a fan of precise adjustments. Considering when I was growing up in the Corps at Parris Island they taught me not to use Kentucky windage.
I would say its 50/50. Maybe those with poor eyesight do better at 200 with the ACOG but 300 and 500 is hit or miss for everyone. Let me be clear and say I am not disagreeing with you. If you already know how to shoot, know the aspects of it, and know what is going on with that metal in your hands the ACOG is an advantage especially, for me, at 200 in the standing. But you try being a boot Corporal and telling that 18 year SSgt who is shooting high and to the right to "aim at the top of the berm"... damnit it still irks me. "Devil Dog, you want me to aim where??
Also, regarding Grip-pods. I only saw the "pod" part used to hit Marines in the nuts and get an initial zero at EMP ranges.
Last edited by Eurodriver; 08-12-11 at 21:20.
Why do the loudest do the least?
Is the RVG much lighter than the TD stubby? Which one is shorter? Any difference in circumference? Which generally lends itself better to the thumb-break method?
I started my carbine training without a VFG, despite having tried them on the gun for tacticool reasons. I ended up selling my DD VFG. After my second class, I'm coming to the conclusion that I need to get one.
The only tango down stubby I own is chopped down from a full size one so can't really answer those questions definitively.
Circumference wise the TD is probably a bit smaller.
For less than $20, the Magpul VFG's are a much better option for my needs and I'll likely replace my existing VFG's with Magpul.
I run a TD stubby on my 6.5 G since it is a nice profile, however the storage aspect of it is limited. I do not keep batteries in it as there are no lights/RDS optics on the gun.
I do run Magpul RVGs on both my SBR uppers. I like it because the profile is similar to the TD and 1/3rd the cost. It doesn't put a cap on the bottom since I use a Vltor modstock or LMT SOPMOD on that lower and have no need to store things in the VFG. The grip it allows me to achieve with my thumb wrapped over the top allows activation of the MBUS or 0000hr positioned TLR-1.
On my 7.5" 22 upper
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30 caliber junkie.
God Bless America.
I won't be utilizing the storage feature on the TD stubby and I don't think the QD feature is important yet.
I'm mainly concerned with ease of grip/ comfort type attributes when mounted on Troy TRX Extreme tubes. The attachment method of adding on rails with those handguards frequently leave VFGs feeling a bit strange in the hand.
I agree with you on the rail+VFG being less than ideal, and I'm hoping Mount-N-Slot will come out with a direct-attach VFG for the minimalist rails like the Extreme. On the VTAC the slot on the Magpul grip for the MOE handguards fits well but the radius of the two handguards is different and leaves a gap. I was planning on trying to shave one down, fill the gaps with epoxy, etc. but decided it was too much effort.
I like to do a modified AFG now which is more like a psuedo handstop. The rear is now flat and it is much smaller / lighter than an original. It can perform most of the functions listed in this thread that a VFG can do, but IMO it is much more comfortable / efficient than the VFG and I was a long time VFG handstop guy. By more efficient is that I prefer to use backward pressure with my index finger wrapped in front of the AFG as opposed to say a VFG and rearward pressure on the small finger which forces more pressure on the canted wrist, which becomes uncomfortable over long days of shooting. I never noticed this comfort thing until I changed set ups away from the VFG.
For the minimalist rail (Extreme) I have played with the AFG in direct contact with the rail and with the added rail piece. I actually like the added rail piece because I like the circumference due to holding the AFG farther forward with an index finger wrap and a thumb over "C" clamp grip. Also the rail also acts like a heat sink. Now if someone came up with an all in one that kept these same positives for a handstop / grip and attached direct to the tube without a rail, then that would be a good thing. I have design ideas and guys who could do the work, I am just too busy to get to it.![]()
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