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Thread: Had some extraction problems today at the range...

  1. #1
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    Had some extraction problems today at the range...

    A week or two ago I installed the usual upgraded extractor spring set: black insert, stronger spring and the black Crane o-ring. I was not having any extractor problems, but I figured I may as well get them since I was ordering a bunch of other stuff, anyway. The rifle is a CMMG 16" midlength, standard front sight base/gas block, I have had zero malfunctions with it before today, it has about 700 through it.

    Today was the first time I fired the rifle with the new parts, and I had failure to eject problems with EVERY round I fired. The extractor would not let of the casing, and it jammed against the locking lug area when the bolt came forward again. After a few cycles of this, I removed the o-ring which helped tremendously. It worked pretty well, but over the next hour or so there were a couple stovepipes. I did not have my old blue insert and spring with me at the range, so I had to deal with the black one. Unfortunately I lost the o-ring at the range, but that's not the end of the world.

    As I mentioned before, I have had no problems with this rifle before this. I thought maybe the greatly increased extractor strength is not recommended for midlegnth gas systems, but when I searched on the forum and I saw that people do it with no problems. All the mags I used have worked fine in the past, and they worked fine with the o-ring removed (stovepipes happened with multiple mags), so I think I can rule mag problems out. I have noticed what may be signs of slight gas leaking from the front sight base, but I have never had short stroking problems before. I didn't think of it at the range, but I wish I had tried the 1 round in the mag thing before I removed the o-ring.

    Any ideas? Might this be an indicator of other problems?

  2. #2
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    You don't need to upgrade the extraction force on mid-length uppers because they are not over-gassed.
    Only carbine-gassed barrels need extraction upgrades.
    You have created so much extractor tension that the ejector can't overcome it and pitch the fired casing out of the ejection port.

    Leave the crane o-ring off.
    You might also consider going back to the blue extractor spring insert.

    It's possible that your ejector spring is not up-to spec as well, but not likely.
    Randall Rausch
    AR15 Barrel Guru
    California Precision Rifle Club founding member

  3. #3
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    Thanks, that's what I figured, I did put the blue one back in. I'm amazed that I never came across this in reading about all this stuff.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkanga View Post
    Thanks, that's what I figured, I did put the blue one back in. I'm amazed that I never came across this in reading about all this stuff.
    The "O" ring doesn't need to be in there. Take it out, use the Black Insert and a stock extractor spring. AR15 Barrels is right...change the ejector spring when you change the Extractor unit to increase ejection tension. You need a fresh ejector spring to throw the case clear of the ejection port if you add more extractor tension...which as he stated is not needed on a Mid Length Gas System. He's right on.

    His advise as outline worked for me 100%.

    Tack

  5. #5
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    I upgraded my 20" Colt with G&R Tactical Crane O Ring upgrade and she runs perfect, even with Wolf steel.

  6. #6
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    I had the same problem with the "upgrade". My previously reliable midlength had failures to eject. Returning to the original configuration cured the problem.

  7. #7
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    I thought about using that upgrade kit but instead I used one of the D-Fenders on my extractor spring and it works! I kept the stock spring and bue insert in it just to see the difference it would make. I used it for the first time yesterday and it was well worth the extra money! It shot that empty shell casing out further and faster then I have ever seen any of my AR's do before! Im definitly sold on the D-Fender!

  8. #8
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    I too didn't realize the "reliability package" was only for CARBINES, as I had never read such before... I had thought it was GTG for ALL AR15's...

    It worked on my 18" middy SPR but damaged the rim of the case pretty good, and as a reloader, that was blasphemy, so I went back to the original.

    In my Colt M4, it too beat the rim of the case pretty good but never failed to eject. I just removed the Crane O-Ring on that one...

    Live and learn... It should be better explained by vendors though.

    Rmpl
    "Our destruction... will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence..."
    ...Daniel Webster, June 1, 1837

  9. #9
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    I think vendors should ensure they have the correct parts included in their 'upgrade' kits.
    This would be a chrome silicone ejector spring,(longer and black in color).
    A chrome silicone,(black) or Colt enhanced,(gold) extractor spring.
    A black extractor buffer,(this is THE standard Mil-Spec replacement for All rifles now. The blue smurf is obsolete.).
    A D-Fender D-ring or a Crane O-ring.

    These parts must all be used in conjunction with the others or reliability problems may ensue.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by onmilo View Post
    I think vendors should ensure they have the correct parts included in their 'upgrade' kits.
    This would be a chrome silicone ejector spring,(longer and black in color).
    A chrome silicone,(black) or Colt enhanced,(gold) extractor spring.
    A black extractor buffer,(this is THE standard Mil-Spec replacement for All rifles now. The blue smurf is obsolete.).
    A D-Fender D-ring or a Crane O-ring.

    These parts must all be used in conjunction with the others or reliability problems may ensue.
    Well...here is what LMT told me is the right replacement parts for THEIR 16" Mid Length MRP upper:

    Mil. Spec Extractor Spring. (Not a high powered spring)
    Mil. Spec Ejector Sping.
    Black Extractor Buffer.
    NO Donut or D Ring!

    This works every time after 7000 rounds in my 16" Mid- Length MRP. Period! There is no need for an "Upgrade Kit" as a "Quality Vendor" puts the right parts in the "Stock Configuration". LMT does not sell an "Bolt Upgrade Kit" to the best of my knowledge.

    Note: This is not for "Carbine Length Gas Systems"!!!

    This being said, LMT has since included the "Donut" in all of their bolts as I have been told. Go figure???

    Bottom line...it's about what works in YOUR weapon.

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