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Thread: Marines + HK M27 IAR = The Good Lord's Work

  1. #51
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    Give it some time. Bet me how long it'll be before IARs start showing up at depot maintenance with the front wall of the well chamfered like it oughta be (if nobody nuts up and makes it happen from the factory).

    That thing's too damned expensive to buy across the board. If anybody thinks that that's gonna happen within or even immediately following the current administration....well, suffice to say that you have problems that I would need years of schooling and pharmacological training to solve.
    Contractor scum, AAV

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by variablebinary View Post
    Though, what's better than two M27's per squad: eight M27's per squad. Just give one guy the uber mags.
    One per fireteam.

    When we had the A1s...we had a designated AR man, only problem was that everyone became an AR man as soon as targets appeared.

    We were doing a platoon assault course with pop up targets on Tinian. One of those 'cat sized' rats ran across the course. Everyone tried to shoot the rat, the rat made it to the left lateral limit and escaped. We ran out of ammo and fixed bayonets...there were 12 - 14 targets left standing that weren't hit by fire. The platoon started the course with 6 loaded magazines, the AR bubbas had 12 loaded magazines.


    For about a year (84-85), the AR man kept the A1 while everyone else had the A2. We still only had M-193 so it really didn't make a difference. The M-855 didn't start getting to us until the later part of 85 when we were issued M-249s.
    Last edited by Smuckatelli; 06-30-11 at 15:33.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSantoro View Post

    That thing's too damned expensive to buy across the board.
    That reminded me of when Gen Mattis stopped by our shop while he had MCCDC. He was pissed because it is institutionally okay spend 8 grand on a plane tire but won't spend that kind of funds on grunt's gear.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoutfsu99 View Post
    The SCAR absolutely takes PMags.
    Not without modification to the gun, or magazines.
    We miss you, AC.
    We miss you, ToddG.

  5. #55
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    how it feels

    Quote Originally Posted by jwperry View Post
    Kind of off topic here, but how does the Hk stock compare to a SOPMOD? Solid lockup, ease of movement on the receiver extension and durability wise.
    From the hk-usa.com webshop, it has a lower MSRP and for me it looks attractive because I might be able to fit a chamber brush in the stock.

    I shot this stock quite a bit on a 416 and 417. I also have three SOPMODs and have to say I think the HK feels a bit better. I dont really like the look of it, but it locks up nice and tight. It also rolls right into my shoulder alot better than the sopmod. It just feels real nice and shoots great.
    “It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” Samuel Adams

    Those that bleed with me are forever my brothers OCT 28

  6. #56
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    Im glad the Marines got a real AR back in the field. I was a SAW gunner in the Army and can say that it does not make a good AR but does cover the LMG role pretty well. Manuever under fire and urban combat can be a real pain in the ass with that gun.

    In the firefights I have been in, I never saw a SAW used to its full potential and the job could have easily been cover by the IAR. But then again I never went to Afghanistan where the mountain fighting could make the SAW very useful.

    Now how long until the Army likes what it sees? But then again they wont be able to say that the USMC got it right so they will spend millions researching the whole thing to only come to the same conclusion...... and then buy something different.
    Last edited by C-grunt; 06-30-11 at 15:59.
    C co 1/30th Infantry Regiment
    3rd Brigade 3rd Infantry Division
    2002-2006
    OIF 1 and 3

    IraqGunz:
    No dude is going to get shot in the chest at 300 yards and look down and say "What is that, a 3 MOA group?"

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by montrala View Post
    Is this better heat management in HK effect of operating system, using unobtanium or...
    It is most likely the amount of steel in the barrel.

    I hope they got the best weapon available for the mission, but I'm still interested to see how it does after the new car smell wears off. For the cost I have to ask what an M16/M4 with an auto FCG and 16" heavy barrel can do.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Salad0892 View Post
    Not without modification to the gun, or magazines.

    Are you talking about the SCAR 17 or 16? The 16 100% takes PMags. If you're talking about the 17, sorry - I misunderstood.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuckatelli View Post
    That reminded me of when Gen Mattis stopped by our shop while he had MCCDC. He was pissed because it is institutionally okay spend 8 grand on a plane tire but won't spend that kind of funds on grunt's gear.
    As of the winter of 10 the average Marine riflemen deploys with 27,000 dollars in gear.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSantoro View Post
    Give it some time. Bet me how long it'll be before IARs start showing up at depot maintenance with the front wall of the well chamfered like it oughta be (if nobody nuts up and makes it happen from the factory).
    This. Spot on, JSantoro.

    Just to clarify some of the information in this thread:

    1. The IAR program was initiated in 2005, long before the PMAG or SureFire quad stack mags existed. It is my understanding that the original requirement asked for high capacity magazines (50-100+ rounds), but only required compatibility with the standard issue USGI aluminum magazine. The HK 416 meets the threshold requirement.

    2. As far as we can tell, the decision by HK to deviate from the milspec M4/M16 magazine well dimensions was driven by the blank firing SA80 magazine that HK designed for the British MOD when upgrading their L85 rifles and magazines. In order to make the HK blank firing magazine compatible with the 416, they had to mimic the SA80's magazine well geometry. Specific details can be found on page 3 of this thread, in a post by user "Magpul" toward the bottom of the page: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...1195246&page=3

    3. When the PMAG was released in 2007, the HK 416 was virtually nonexistent within the U.S. military, so compatibility was of little concern as long as it functioned in all M4/M16 variants. When you consider the millions of M4/M16/AR15 weapon systems in inventory with U.S. military, as well as federal, state, and local law enforcement, it makes sense why optimized compatibility with so-called "milspec" magazine wells was the top priority in PMAG development.

    4. When demand arose for a PMAG variant that would be compatible with foreign weapons such as the HK 416, SA80/L85, ARX-160, and others, Magpul developed the EMAG, or "Export Magazine". For the reason stated in #2 above, domestic demand has been very limited, but Magpul was awarded a contract for just over 1 million EMAGs by the British Ministry of Defence in 2010. The total contract has been fulfilled, and EMAGs are being issued as we speak to all deploying British forces for use in the L85A2 bullpup rifle.

    5. The PMAG has been assigned two National Stock Numbers, NSN 1005-01-576-5159 (MAG211-BLK) & 1005-01-576-5164 (MAG210-BLK), and is being purchased in substantial quantities by all U.S. military branches, including the USMC, who was the earliest adopter.

    6. The EMAG has been assigned two NSNs, both for P/N MAG241-BLK: 1005-01-591-6169 & 1005-99-667-5926, but the authorized users on these NSNs are foreign. At this time, there is no valid NSN to allow American military units to purchase the EMAG.

    Unfortunately, as JSantoro mentions, it may be only a matter of time until Marines start taking files to their M27s to make them compatible with the magazines they trust. Trying to prohibit Marines from using PMAGs in theater, many of which have been purchased with personal money, is going to be nearly impossible. While one solution is to simply start selling EMAGs to Marines instead of PMAGs, this idea may still be problematic because: 1) there are already hundreds of thousands of PMAGs in service with the USMC and other branches of the military which cannot easily be rounded up and thrown out; 2) even if a ban is implemented, other branches are continuing to purchase PMAGs in large quantities, which may result in "cross contamination"; and 3) there are two NSNs on the EMAG, but the only authorized users are foreign, so there is no effective method for procurement at this time.

    As you can see, no one organization/entity is directly to blame for this issue, and certainly no party involved is acting with malicious intentions. Magpul has a strong relationship with both MARCORSYSCOM and HK-D in the U.S., and we are confident that a solution will be reached quickly. Our company was founded by a Marine, and we have members from every branch of the military on staff - one of the primary reasons we got into this industry was to help ensure our men and women in uniform receive the equipment they need to accomplish their mission and come home safely. Rest assured that Magpul is doing everything in our power to help mitigate this issue and do what is best for the Marines who will soon be carrying the M27 IAR in combat.
    --Nick
    Owner, Reptilia & Side Project, LLC

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