Acceptable accuracy of shooter

[C4IGrant]

Ok, you're just trying to make me feel bad now, lol.

No, I understand now. I just wasn't sure. Like I said, I've seen BullsEye targets and those guys "target" was basically the X ring. I just wasn't sure about everyday style guns.

On the subject of training and the PPS. Would you consider it an acceptable gun to take training with or would something with more capacity be a better choice?

This is kind of what I'm trying to get set up for. To prepare myself for a class or two.

Always compete against yourself. Don't worry about what other people are doing (or how well they shoot). To many people get consumed with this and it ruins the "fun" of shooting.

I would have no issue running a PPS in a basic pistol or CCW class. You are going to do a lot of mag changes though and might want to have eight or more mags before attending a class.

I teach a lot of NEW shooters (the kind that aren't really sure what all the buttons and switches are for on their gun) and I will tell you that it is BETTER to get proper training before you start to develop your bad habits into a routine (that will be hard to get out of at a later date).


Edited to add that you have some VSM instructors close by (one in VA and one in NC). So I would suggest looking at the VSM class postings and see what you can find. These classes are 100% geared towards a shooter like yourself and are priced very well.

https://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=170



C4

[tb-av]

Always compete against yourself. Don't worry about what other people are doing (or how well they shoot). To many people get consumed with this and it ruins the "fun" of shooting.

That's pretty much all I do. Basically the reason for these questions. I'm just trying to figure how to set some goals for myself. I realize some of the answers I get here will be off the charts but I can temper them towards my reality.

VSM? I guess I need to hit the search. I'm drawing a blank on that.

I actually got some very beginner and basic instructions years ago but that guy has now moved away. He was/is a top notch shooter though. Very similar mindset to what I see discussed here.

I don't think I have many bad habits beyond beginner defects. I also have no problem doing whatever I'm told. If you told me I had to shoot left handed all day, I would do it. I might not like it but I would do it.

I wish there was someone here in Central VA. I'm pretty much stuck at going to Black Creek and practicing whatever I can on my own.

My next step is to take some video cameras to see if I pick up where I go wrong. I've reached the point, I can't "see" what I'm screwing up.


EDIT: Ok, VSM, yes, that class they just had in VaBeach would have been perfect for me. I'll keep tabs on those.

[C4IGrant]

That's pretty much all I do. Basically the reason for these questions. I'm just trying to figure how to set some goals for myself. I realize some of the answers I get here will be off the charts but I can temper them towards my reality.

VSM? I guess I need to hit the search. I'm drawing a blank on that.

I actually got some very beginner and basic instructions years ago but that guy has now moved away. He was/is a top notch shooter though. Very similar mindset to what I see discussed here.

I don't think I have many bad habits beyond beginner defects. I also have no problem doing whatever I'm told. If you told me I had to shoot left handed all day, I would do it. I might not like it but I would do it.

I wish there was someone here in Central VA. I'm pretty much stuck at going to Black Creek and practicing whatever I can on my own.

My next step is to take some video cameras to see if I pick up where I go wrong. I've reached the point, I can't "see" what I'm screwing up.

VSM = Vickers Shooting Method

Follow the link I posted and it will take you to a listing of classes offered by the Regional VSM instructors.


C4

[tb-av]

10-4, sorry, I missed the link. M4C site is not refreshing properly for me now. I'm getting text and a grey background making things a bit hard to read.

Yeah, looks like he is aiming for Aug/Sept again.

[tgace]

As I have been told by various instructors..

"If you have a nice small group you need to speed up. If your shots are all over the place you need to slow down."

Group size without some sort of time/stress factor is not really a great indicator of "acceptable accuracy" IMO.

[C4IGrant]

As I have been told by various instructors..

"If you have a nice small group you need to speed up. If your shots are all over the place you need to slow down."

Group size without some sort of time/stress factor is not really a great indicator of "acceptable accuracy" IMO.

One of my favorite lines that I received from a Combat Vet: "No one will EVER need to tell you to shoot faster in a gun fight."

Speed comes naturally with practice. Too many people worry about how fast they can go, but don't shoot good groups. Always crawl, walk, run. Meaning, Shoot SLOW concentrated groups to improve your trigger manipulation. As the groups improve, you can try and do it in less time.


C4

[tgace]

I think that that saying was aimed at people who already have the basic skills but are content with nice tight groups with no concern at all for their speed.

If speed wasnt a factor or something to be "worked on" in balance with accuracy we wouldn't have timed standards or bother using shot timers. If you are a pure beginner I agree. Foucs on the fundamentals, work on "smootheness" and then the speed will come. But otherwise (IMO) you should be pushing your speed till you notice a change in your accuracy to see where your limits are.

[huntsimp]

I follow the simple and easy rule that I need to be able to shoot 2.5-3" groups at 25yds. The reason for this is because everything doubles under stress (like someone trying to kill you). So that means that I will shoot 5-6 inches. Anything larger than that and I won't be able to put a round in the head. YMMV



C4

A 2.5-3" group of how many rounds?

[Magic_Salad0892]

A 2.5-3" group of how many rounds?

5, I'd assume. I try it with 10. I don't shoot for groups with a pistol that much though. I'd say I probably shoot a 10 round slow fire group to warm up, and the other 500 rounds are spent running drills.

Redback One qualification drills.
Ken Hackathorn's 1-2-3-4-5 drill, and variations of.
El Presidente.
FAST (twice at the end of the day)
15 rounds at 200m. (Newly adopted. Personal best 8-15 hits.)

Usually what I do.

[Jim D]

Damn, I've got a long way to go..

Now just to be clear again. You guys are doing this with compact guns?

I shoot with a Glock 19, yes.

If you run a smaller gun with a shorter sight radius, it's going to be more of a challenge.

The Humber is good because it's a benchmark drill. Do it, write down your scores on each stage, and keep them. Keep checking back in on it and just make sure your scores go up, not down.

If you're starting out shooting a 425, so be it...at least you have measured where you're at currently. Use it to identify your weaknesses, then work on those weaknesses.

The simple/intro version is the 200...the slow fire portions, only. No sense in running the rapid fire stages if you're not getting 80% or better of your points during slow (un-timed) fire.

Many of our goals as shooters is to always improve. Many of us are not happy being "good enough", we know we can always learn and improve, so we work on it.

There are a lot of good benchmark drills of "good enough." 250 on the Hack, passing the Paul Howe pistol standards, the LAV "Sybol Drill", "The Test", etc.

The Humbler is just one of the best ways to track and improve your pure accuracy potential (read: sight alignment and trigger control).