Yes.Originally Posted by tb-av
G19 - it's all I own.
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Member
Yes.
G19 - it's all I own.
Dealer
Speed comes naturally with practice. Yes, we have timed drills, but not as many as pure accuracy based drills though.
C4
Last edited by C4IGrant; 07-01-11 at 20:07.
Dealer
I shoot the 6 and 7rd mags with my PPS so typically that many rounds. Guns that hold more rounds, I shoot 10rd groups.
Today, I did some shooting and shot consistent 3.5-4" groups with the PPS and 2.5" groups with the PPQ.
C4
Last edited by C4IGrant; 07-01-11 at 20:05.
Senior Member
Well I have to say thanks and I admire how well you guys can shoot.
This gives me a reality basis to at least work towards.
@Backstop thanks for those links also. I need to do some more reading on that site.
I'm going to try some of all these suggestions and see if I can at least get on to the 25yrd target more reliably.
I would be ecstatic if I could get everything in the 10 ring of a B-8 at 7.5yrds and within the 8 ring at 25yrds in a fairly relaxed fashion by this Fall.
Senior Member
Grant do like the 8 round mags? I'm not crazy about it. I mostly just shoot the 7rnd. I don;t have a 6rnd but was thinking of converting the 8 to a 6.I shoot the 6 and 7rd mags with my PPS
The 7 feels perfect to me and the 8 makes the grip feel too long.
Dealer
I do not. I use and carry the 7rd mag the most. Reason being that I can put one in the chamber and then fully load and insert the 7rd mag (giving me 8 over all).
C4
Senior Member
Interesting. Maybe I should just convert it to 7 and just go with all 7s.
Senior Member
I tried some ball and dummy drills out to 25 yards today during a quick trip to the range, talk about eye opening. It's gonna be a long while until I reach the level of these guys, I can't imagine adding time pressure at this point.
Industry Professional
Grant is correct, Crawl, walk, run. I cannot stress this enough and it bears repeating. We implement this progression in almost everything we do in a specific learning progression to get desired results. Ideally we always want to learn and progress in this specific manner as we are building on the prior fundamental or skill in a correct learning progression. Do not skip around. If you are having problems, hit the reset button and start from the beginning or from scratch.
Having said the above, fundamentals are KING. Master the basic fundamentals in a slow un-timed rate of fire such as a one hole drill. A good speed or combat shooter is simply taking the basic fundamentals and applying them in a much more rapid manner. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Another cliche perhaps, but very true. Get your basics down in a correct manner and speed will come.
Take the progression of the fundamentals in a progressive order.
- Stance - I'd suggest a modern combat isosceles stance.
- Grip. Make sure your grip is correct. I'd suggest a modern combat or thumbs forward.
- Sight Alignment. Second most important factor. Sights must stay correctly aligned throughout the entire trigger pull process.
- Sight Picture. Hard front sight in-focus, blurry rear sight, blurry target. Placing this alignment and maintaining that on our target throughout the trigger pull.
- Breathing. Critical in pure accuracy or one hole drill type of shooting. Learn to shoot on the respiratory pause after the exhale.
- Trigger Control. Pulling the trigger straight to the rear with no sideways influence in a smooth motion while not disrupting your sight alignment / sight picture. Learning proper trigger manipulation is the most important fundamental with causes the greatest chance for accuracy issues. This also stems into pushing or flinching.
- Follow Through. Maintain our sight picture as the slide cycles keeping your head and shoulders down. Track your sights until they settle back on target. DO NOT LOOK UP AT THE TARGET TO SEE YOUR HOLE APPEAR. Raising your head will raise your shoulders which will raise your muzzle and send shots high.
One hole Drill. A nice small group under un-timed slow fire from say 5-7 yards will show a shooters mastery or proficiency in applying the basic fundamentals of marksmanship. Aim small, miss small. Get this down first. Once you have good mastery of the fundamentals we can increase the speeds and or distances. A good speed shooter is merely proficient with applying the basic fundamentals much more quickly. Of course practice and skill will allow a more skilled shooter more room to deviate on the basic fundamentals depending on what kind of accuracy that they wish to achieve at a particular distance in a given time frame.
After establishing your good base for fundamentals you can move on to finding your own balance between speed vs accuracy and how to progress with this.
As for shooting at distance, we should just think of shooting a smaller target at close range instead of shooting the same sized target at increasing distances. Often shooting as distance increases is mostly a mental block in many shooters. I would suggest starting at 5 yards then increasing at 5 yard increments out to 50+ yards. The center circle on say a pepper popper is a good target size to use. Once you start getting good hits at say 50 yards, 7-10 yards will seem like childs play.
Eventually when you get good out to say 50 yards you can progress out to say 200+ yards. If you can incorporate this into your normal training routine and get proficient, 50 and even 100 yards will seem simple. This concept of very exaggerated skills also applies to many other things. It goes along with the concept of how you perform under stress. If you will only perform at a certain percentage of your normal skill level while under stress, practice for more perfection. This extended distance or increased speed concept can apply to say shooting at distance, shooting on the move etc, etc, etc...
Senior Member
"Take the progression of the fundamentals in a progressive order."
On a scale of 1 - 10
- Stance - 8+
- Grip. - 8+
- Sight Alignment. - 6
- Sight Picture. - 6
- Breathing. - 8+
- Trigger Control. - 6 (recently after your videos though I will get some better pulls )
- Follow Through. - 7+
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I know what the sights are supposed to look like but trying to maintain picture and trigger control those three aspects ( sight, sight, Trigger ) interact so much it's like I'm juggling and one ball is always in the air. It's like I always have a three legged stool with only two legs once the shot breaks.
To some degree I have a spoked wheel but I really feel like most of the spokes are pretty tight and true but those three I can never seem to develop into solid foundation.
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PPS specific question. Generally speaking I have always like my sights to be a 6:00 hold or I think some may call it dotting the I?
For instance in your one hole drill with the 1" orange dot. I would prefer my sights look like three level bars with the bottom of that orange dot sitting on the center bar. This would result in a hole dead center of the orange.
On my PPS though, I sort of have to super-impose the center dot over the orange target dot AND create three level bars ( Rear - Front - Rear top surfaces ) AND keep the front centered between the two rear AND retain focus on front only.
What are your thoughts on that? I think I might have some sort of defect in my thinking with this particular setup but not sure how to work through it. On my other guns i just adjust the sights but they are blade type target sights and it's easily done.
Last edited by tb-av; 07-02-11 at 13:20.
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