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Thread: Reference "5.56 is bad for home defense 'cause' thread?

  1. #61
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    Dirtyboy,

    I am truly glad that you and BCMjunkie are okay. I say this, not just as a Deputy, but as another regular guy....and I say it without caveat.

    I work in the Orlando area and I can tell you that, without any sarcasm, a home invasion cannot occur without entry being made (or granted) into the home.

    Home hardening techniques are a mandatory first step. You can replace the screws in your door/lockplate/hinges with 2 &1/2" monster screws for cheap is an easy way to start that can be done even if you rent.

    I once stayed in a VERY high crime area of Orlando for one year before becoming a cop, but after I started owning guns. I replaced every other screw in the door hinges, lock plate, deadbolt, and the door frame hinges with hardened 2.5" drywall screws (skinny enough to not require the drilling of pilot holes and still not split the wood frame). It was a metal door. I was out of town on business and returned a few days later to find an ENORMOUS foot-shaped dent in my door and my door jamb cracked, but still intact. The door had withstood a break-in attempt and remained secure.

    I spoke with the property manager about it and he had never seen a door at that property withstand an attempt and hold fast.

    This is just ONE thing that can be done to discourage home invaders. I can tell you that, if they are not successful in making a fast entry, 9 times out of 10 they will completely abort the effort. If you can harden your entry points enough to slow them down....your chances of success go through the roof.

    Lastly, I do carry a handgun on or near me (literally, always within arms' reach) everywhere in my home. I spend a lot of free time on my couch, and I usually will place my AR leaned-up against the couch cushions next to me (stock on the floor).

    An AR or shotgun is terminally superior in all aspects to a handgun for the purposes of killing a human being (and that's really what all this boils down to, doesn't it?). If I'm in a lethal encounter, I want the bigger gun, that shoots faster and more accurately, and creates superior terminal wounds in my enemy.

    It's been said that you bring a handgun to an incident where you're not sure there is a gun...you bring a Rifle/shotgun to a gunfight. I'm not telling anybody how to run their lives, but some quality live training from a respected trainer would serve you well. You're obviously more well versed in personal armed conflicts than most. And, yes, you did revert to the level of your training, which was none. I'm not making fun of you...we ALL revert to the level of our training. That's why many train so hard to turn proper training into instinct. It can be done, brother.... and I encourage you to do so.

    Be safe, be smart, and train hard.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    The shooting referenced would be Jose Guerena. He came to the door with an AR and allegedly pointed it at LE just after they breached the front door, then was shot. There was a SWAT truck with lights running in the driveway, they ran the siren and announced before breaching. Going to the door with ANY gun at that point was a very bad idea so I don't get it being referenced here as a reason the AR is bad for HD.
    I'm sorry for the thread diversion, but this is most definitely NOT what happened. He didn't come to the door - the SWAT officers kicked it in and fired over 70 shots at the two-tour Marine. I suggest anyone interested in the details of the Jose Guerena shooting check the following links.

    Helmet cam video from the outside of Guerena's house

    Summary of the story with links from Reason.com

    Again, apologies for the off topic response.

  3. #63
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    Points well taken BufordT. And yeah now that I'm older I see much more clearly on the home defense subject and instead of being lazy like I have been I'm actually going to do something about it.

    I'm actually moments away from being an officer myself (hopefully) and I'll most likely see this kind of thing a good bit.

    I was 21 or 22 when the first incident happened and I had just bought my 1st handgun (G19) and your right, I dint have any training at all. Although, I really don't know what firearms training would have done for me in that situation bc I wasn't armed but maybe they would have taught me to "always be armed" or "don't open the door like an idiot" and that sure would have helped.

    I didn't yet mention it but on the second invasion i was much more prepared (after the 1st learning experience) to deal with the threat. I was still 21 or 22 with no formal training but my instincts did kick in and I feel they were pretty strong because the instant I became aware of the threat it was just 1 big reflex which included quickly ripping throwing the covers off me while at the same time rolling off the side of the bed, grabbing the gun while keeping my eyes on the two (maybe three) bad guys and racking the slide (yeah, now I know I shouts had it chambered but at the time I always had this stupid fear of sleep walking and shooting my GF or myself). Anyway, I was scared outta my mind and had the gun pointed right at them and I could have easily shot one but thank God I didn't. It was basically pitch black besides the very little ambient glow from the fish tank so when they either heard the slide rack or I just startled them by jumping outta bed so quickly, they had started their Turnaround to get the he'll outta there as fast as they could There was definately a few moments where they were facing me with gun pointed at them and honestly this was from like 7 or so feet away. Since they didn't come at me I luckily held my finger but I was right on the very edge of taking a shot. I had to check around two door corners before I could make out to the porch behind them but they were already 100-150 yards away getting in their car and with no car lights on I couldn't get their plates. My front porch was 15-20 feet tall with a long staircase leading up to it so they had to have been so scared the hurtled the railing and fell a good way because as fast as I checked the rooms (just quick head poke around the corner) and got to the porch there's no way they took the stairs and were that far away. Anyway, big cowboy footprint on my door which was laying on my kitchen floor. Landlord replaced it with a nice steel door but I moved out 3 days later.

    Anyway, thanks for the tips and stay safe out there

    Oh, forgot to mention, I'm MUCH more trained now then I was then but more is always better. Back then I was just a young punk who had an interest in guns and just enough money to get my 1st one. Ha
    Last edited by Dirtyboy333; 07-16-11 at 07:29.

  4. #64
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    Sometimes I think people read these threads and think that the only weapon we advocate is a long gun- specifically AR. That isn't the case. But, if you have access to it and it is available then it would be the route to take.

    I'm sure that the local LE wouldn't be happy if you answered the door with any firearm- long gun or pistol.

    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    While I think a long gun is definitely part of the home defense kit, in light of the Tucson shooting, it might not always be the default choice. I recently heard a knock at an upstairs door, off a deck, during the day. Long story short, it was the local Sheriff, and he saw the gate open, and dropped by to discuss something about responding to our alarm. I was carrying under concealment, and I know that I, and most likely the Sheriff, was happy that I didn't answer the door with an AR or 870 in hand.



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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtyboy333 View Post
    Sorry u had to go through that man. I used to have a roomate who kept a shotgun behind the front door but anytime I would see it there I would pick it up and put it under the couch (which was much farther inside the house) and then tell/yell at him about it. Lol it was after my two experiences.

    The reason was because I lived upstairs in a neat loft (which was almost like a whole separate apartment) and we almost always were hanging out up there. Also, someone kicks the door in you can never get to it as well as there being a chance the bad guy gets it. I still know alot of "old-timers" that do this but they swear by it and have much more experience than I so i bite my lip.

    Question: Just for a real world example, is that what happened in your case? ie: they barged in so fast that you either couldn't get to your gun or would have taken a major risk of getting shot/hurt if you would have went for it?

    .
    Well I was actually living with a co-worker, he always had people coming and going. One night Im sittin on the computer, about 15' from the door, behind me, my boss was sleeping in a chair, 20' back, another co-worker was ther, when I heard the knock I turned around and looked at my friend, it was really odd hearing a knock without a phone going off first.

    I went to the door and looked through the window, two kids(black kids with hoods on) that looked like two kids that were over the night before, I opened the door and they asked for my boss, "ya come on in" Hey man someone here to see you, (wakes up) "what? who is it?" Then I hear 2 slides racking. ****.

    So they start yelling "Where the **** the safe at!" Give us the cash get the safe!" Moved me to the couch with a pistol IN my face, It was a glock, 17 or 19, the other kid had a PPK. So Im on the couch at the far right side, the coworker to my left, and boss to my far left in a chair facing to my right.

    He starts givin him money, my hands are up next to my head, pistol IN my forehead, they take him to the safe, come back a few minutes later, they start tellin us where the **** is the rest, that was all of it though. One gets on the coffe table and starts kickin him in the head over and over.
    Then the kid with the gun in my face starts talkin about shooting one of us and they decide to pistol whip my boss. With one gun in my face, the other kid bends down about 5' away to un-chamber the round (no gun control or knowledge of a handgun)

    For a split second I thought about grabbing the pistol in my face, he wasnt paying attention and his friend had no rounds in the chamber, but it left my head as fast as I thought about it, what if they didnt back me up. It would have been my fault if they got hurt.

    After they pistol whipped him for a few minutes, the kid stood me up and decided to take me into a different room, It was staright up execution style, our hallway was super long and the end branched out into 3 other bedrooms, I got to the end and stopped, I said "where you want me homie". I seriously thought that was it.

    Anyway they ended up shoving all 3 of us into a hall closet, the kind with accordian doors with the slats you can only see out". We could BARELY fit inside, Tupperware containers and shit breaking, the doors start closing and it was slow motion, I thought they were just gonna start unloading so they didnt have to watch it. But I heard footsteps and they ran out.

    I watched the clock for 27 minutes and these ****S didnt even clear any of the other rooms. Sorry to hear about yours to man. It sucks and it totally changes the way you live. Im 32 now, this only happened 3 years ago. I kept logical, payed attention to everything, I didnt do anything stupid and no one got hurt.
    Last edited by BCmJUnKie; 07-16-11 at 15:36.
    Quote Originally Posted by Split66 View Post
    I wouldnt listen to BCMjunkie. His brown camo clashes like hell with his surroundings. His surroundings are obviously pinkish and lacey and have big hooties.

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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtyboy333 View Post
    Points well taken BufordT. And yeah now that I'm older I see much more clearly on the home defense subject and instead of being lazy like I have been I'm actually going to do something about it.

    I'm actually moments away from being an officer myself (hopefully) and I'll most likely see this kind of thing a good bit.
    That's very cool. Best of luck to you!

    Keep me update via PM on your status?

  7. #67
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    Well yeah, that's a really bad one to be involved in. Damn scary too!!! Well obviously u made the right choice. Good narration by the way, It almost felt like I was there. :eek

    ETA: thanks BufordTjustice, I will!!!
    Last edited by Dirtyboy333; 07-16-11 at 16:12.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtyboy333 View Post
    Well yeah, that's a really bad one to be involved in. Damn scary too!!! Well obviously u made the right choice. Good narration by the way, It almost felt like I was there. :eek

    ETA: thanks BufordTjustice, I will!!!
    Lol ya it sucked, but "whatever dont kill you...".

    I have been blessed with the gift of logic in really bad situations. No one should have to experience a home invasion. It totally ****s with you for quite awhile afterwords
    Quote Originally Posted by Split66 View Post
    I wouldnt listen to BCMjunkie. His brown camo clashes like hell with his surroundings. His surroundings are obviously pinkish and lacey and have big hooties.

    Instagram Dangertastic
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Incorrect. A justified shoot is a justified shoot. Couple that with the fact that most states have some form of a castle doctrine you the distance really does not matter.




    I have seen good "square range" shooters miss a full size human target in a shoot house from 6 feet away. How? They were surprised and jerk the hell out of the trigger.
    As I have said many times on this forum, I am no longer impressed with people’s ability on the square range. Show me how well you move and shoot in a kill house.





    A pistol is just fine, but if you have the time or ability, always switch to a long gun.

    Remember that unless you have had room clearing training with your pistol, then you are most likely even to worse off with it than you would be with a carbine. Why? Because it is much easier to throw a round a close distances.


    C4
    good points...
    very good points. thanks.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveshamockery View Post
    I'm sorry for the thread diversion, but this is most definitely NOT what happened. He didn't come to the door - the SWAT officers kicked it in and fired over 70 shots at the two-tour Marine. I suggest anyone interested in the details of the Jose Guerena shooting check the following links.

    Helmet cam video from the outside of Guerena's house

    Summary of the story with links from Reason.com

    Again, apologies for the off topic response.
    WOW!!! Thanks for those links. I had no knowledge of this case because I had gotten so mad at all the news that i stopped watching it (feel much better).
    Last edited by Dirtyboy333; 07-17-11 at 04:07.

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