1-4 vs Red Dot? What am I missing?

[manderson2228]

I feel like I am missing something. From a usability standpoint I dont see a reason to use a red dot, either aimpoint or eotech over an illuminated 1-4 scope. In 1x mode it runs like a red dot and gives you the ability to zoom out to 4x when you need it. I still keep seeing a ton of well known instructors and shooters using the red dot. I feel like they know something I don't.. To me the 1-4 scope options have basically made the red dot obsolete. What am I missing? Are there advantages to a red dot over a 1-4??

[sgtjosh]

I feel like I am missing something. From a usability standpoint I dont see a reason to use a red dot, either aimpoint or eotech over an illuminated 1-4 scope. In 1x mode it runs like a red dot and gives you the ability to zoom out to 4x when you need it. I still keep seeing a ton of well known instructors and shooters using the red dot. I feel like they know something I don't.. To me the 1-4 scope options have basically made the red dot obsolete. What am I missing? Are there advantages to a red dot over a 1-4??

Larger tube with increased field of view...less likely to tunnel and greater peripheral awareness?

[bp7178]

No eye relief & exit pupil issues and zero parallax past 50 yards.

Much better battery life, and much less weight.

Easier to use with a gasmask.

[suhu]

A good quality variable like the CQB Short Dot is a great choice.

Use what you feel most comfortable with. Some of us are a bit uncomfortable with the price, size, and weight of a high quality variable. If you look at an Aimpoint T1, the light weight, decent price, tiny size, and extreme durability may outweigh zoom capability for many shooters. Additionally, co-witnessing irons can be an important option as well.

[Alaskapopo]

Larger tube with increased field of view...less likely to tunnel and greater peripheral awareness?

No. If you are shooting properly meaning with both eyes open your field of view is the same. The Eotech guys used the same argument against Aimpoints and its wrong. You only get the tunnel effect if you close your other eye.
To the OP there is really very little reason to use a red dot over a good low power variable. One is weight savings with a T1 or a compact RDS. Another is they are more forgiving in less than ideal firing positions. But given the choice I take the lower power variable over the RDS because they are more versatile. One added benefit if your batteries do go dead you can still use the scope. With an RDS if the batteries do go dead you have a clear tube. Some 1-4's don't use batteries like the TR24.






As for gas masks that maybe a good argument for a visible laser.
Pat

[ra2bach]

theoretically, a RDS will be faster on close targets than a magnified optic due to many factors but mostly the need for relatively precise head positioning. however good a 1-4 may be, there is an undeniable speed advantage with a good RDS.

if you find that you can shoot both equally as fast in ALL conditions, it's probable that you are not using the RDS to it's full potential.

--- an analogy to this is that there is a local who rides a Honda Goldwing at Deal's Gap (Tail of the Dragon) so well that he embarrasses most of the visitors to the area on full blown sport bikes. what is not known is that on the same type of bike as them, he is even faster...

one of the places where a 1-4 is almost unusable is in non-conventional shooting positions. at a Dynamic Fighting Rifle class, where we were required to shoot from our backs (simulating a fall or being knocked down), a RDS or even irons allowed quick COM hits but those with a 1-4 were not happy...

there are advantages and compromises with both choices. these "margins" of performance are where the RDS shows it's advantage. the 1-4 shows advantages in other areas.

nonetheless, for a defensive/immediate response rifle, having a sight that is already on is a significant advantage over one that has to be turned on...

[BooneGA]

[QUOTE=ra2bach;1041211one of the places where a 1-4 is almost unusable is in non-conventional shooting positions. at a Dynamic Fighting Rifle class, where we were required to shoot from our backs (simulating a fall or being knocked down), a RDS or even irons allowed quick COM hits but those with a 1-4 were not happy...

there are advantages and compromises with both choices. these "margins" of performance are where the RDS shows it's advantage. the 1-4 shows advantages in other areas.

nonetheless, for a defensive/immediate response rifle, having a sight that is already on is a significant advantage over one that has to be turned on...[/QUOTE]

Which is why I run a MRDS on top of my 1-4. The few added ounces ad a metric sh*t ton of capability in unconventional positions.

Rick

[Pappabear]

I just did not like the 1-4 I ran. I could put it on one power and it worked. Just didn't love it. Everybody's eyes and training lead them to where they are comfortable.

I prefer a RDS OR 3.5 ACOG. My 4x ACOG with doctor atop is quite sweet, and the price tag is gut wrenching. But there are issues with a RDS that high atop an ACOG. As always, it comes down to training.

[Alaskapopo]

I just did not like the 1-4 I ran. I could put it on one power and it worked. Just didn't love it. Everybody's eyes and training lead them to where they are comfortable.

I prefer a RDS OR 3.5 ACOG. My 4x ACOG with doctor atop is quite sweet, and the price tag is gut wrenching. But there are issues with a RDS that high atop an ACOG. As always, it comes down to training.

Training to deal with a fundamental design flaw will not bring the best results. If you want to use two optics the off set RDS is a better solution.
Pat

[Crow Hunter]

I feel like I am missing something. From a usability standpoint I dont see a reason to use a red dot, either aimpoint or eotech over an illuminated 1-4 scope. In 1x mode it runs like a red dot and gives you the ability to zoom out to 4x when you need it. I still keep seeing a ton of well known instructors and shooters using the red dot. I feel like they know something I don't.. To me the 1-4 scope options have basically made the red dot obsolete. What am I missing? Are there advantages to a red dot over a 1-4??

Advantages I have found of a RDS over a 1-4 in my opinion. (M4s vs TR24, the only point of reference that I have)

1. Consistent eye positioning behind the optic. At 1x, I had about 75% of the cheek weld with the TR24 vs the RDS. It was amplified by dropping from a standing position into prone, particularly on uneven ground. I couldn't just keep my eye on the target, while dropping to the ground and then the don't just "magically" appearing in my field of view. I had to look through the tube more on the TR24 to find the target, not as smooth to me. Of course, it was WAY worse on 4x.

2. Odd "fighting" positions would sometimes cause the optic to black out.

3. Heavier than the M4s and the weight didn't feel as distributed as well.

4. Low light performance was not as good. The TR24 works better for me than an ACOG but not as good as a RDS.

5. Have to take the optic off, then flip up rear sight, if it goes down.

6. Even at 1x there is a "little" bit of magnification because you aren't just looking through a tube, this combined with a fixed FSB and the Larue 1.5 mount meant that I got alot of glare reflecting into my view. The FSB was slightly magnified to the point that the light reflecting off of it, "bloomed" in my FOV and was distracting. It was much worse at 4x, even with a sharpie darkend FSB.

Not my direct experience but with the exception of the very best optics they are for all intents and purposes still hunting optics that are adapted for combat and I have enough experience with decent quality hunting scopes to be slightly wary of their durability and ability to hold a zero all the time.

I am also wary of the RDS but it is really easy to check if they have lost zero.

Just my opinion from my VERY limited experience.