Yet another scientific(?) study of "stopping power."

[BuckskinJoe]

Here we go, again.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

I think the author was well-intentioned, however....

[481]

Here we go, again.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

I think the author was well-intentioned, however....

I have seen this "article" (or portions of it) posted on other 'sites as well.

Given the documented inadequacies of such methodology, I find it difficult to be enthusiastic about its ultimate outcome and value, especially since the author of this "study" fails to define the term "stopping power" other than in a colloquial manner among other things.

[200RNL]

Given the documented inadequacies of such methodology, I find it difficult to be enthusiastic about its ultimate outcome and value, especially since the author of this "study" fails to define the term "stopping power" other than in a colloquial manner among other things.

I give the guy credit for another attempt at trying to nail jello to a wall. I have to agree with his conclusion that caliber is less important than it was once thought to be.

[tpd223]

I think it's a pretty good attempt.

I actually like that he basically says all handgun launched bullets suck at stopping bad guys, and shot placement is by far the most important factor.

Since this pretty much jives with my street observations, and directly counters all of the bullshit thrown around by folks who want to preach "YOU GOTTA HAVE A .45 OR YOU"RE DEAD!!!!!!" and similar lines of crap, it's no surprise that I like this article.

[200RNL]

I actually like that he basically says all handgun launched bullets suck at stopping bad guys, and shot placement is by far the most important factor.

You are right about that.

I hear the 'handgun bullets suck at stopping' statement frequently. I think that may be a little too harsh. The uninformed may start thinking getting hit by one is no big deal. Perhaps we should modify the statement to: 'handgun bullets suck at stopping when the CNS is not struck' or something like that.

I also hate when it is said that some service calibers were/are 'woefully inadequate'. Anything that can punch a hole completely through a human body, from any angle, has the potential to do a lot of major damage and gets my respect. Incapacitation may be quick or it may not. That's the nature of the beast so be prepared for the worst case.

[tpd223]

People expect, and search for, what is unavailable from handguns; "instantaneous stopping power".

I used the quote above as it was exact wording from an LEO from Pennsylvania who had gotten on to several sites and LE firearms instructor lists that I am on asking for info ref the .357Sig.

He was asking because the .40 180gr Gold Dot "lacks stopping power".

He was being completely serious.

One of the examples he used was the case that ended up on the FBI PowerPoint that so many of us have already seen. The other was a case where a maniac with a chain saw attacked officers and didn't go down until he was shot several times.

I would submit that "maniac with a chain saw" might be a strong clue that the guy will be hard to put down.
When I asked if anybody had thought to deploy a long gun on that activity dude stopped talking to me. Apparently I was keeping too real.


Last January I had a clean shot at about 35 yards on a big doe, over 200lbs she was. She had no idea I was in the area and was relaxed and eating acorns when I shot her, so fight-or-flight response/etc. wasn't an issue or factor.
Even after most of her heart was blown out the side of her chest due to a .308 150gr JSP flying through her chest she managed to jump a creek, jump a ravine, and run 50-75 yards through heavy timber before laying down.

I tell that type of hunting story to folks who don't hunt, and ask if a .308 can't give "instantaneous stopping power" on a deer, why would anybody expect that bullets of far less than half the horsepower would instantly stop a meth freak?

[481]

I give the guy credit for another attempt at trying to nail jello to a wall. I have to agree with his conclusion that caliber is less important than it was once thought to be.

No one frequenting this forum should be operating under the mistaken assumption that calibrated ordnance gelatin (a reasonably homogeneous soft solid) is somehow the equivalent of striking a human body (heterogeneous density and viscosities) and for that reason there is no need to "nail jello to a wall".

Calibrated 10% ordnance gelatin is a perfectly acceptable and proven test analog that permits the direct comparison of two (or more) different projectiles' terminal performance in a consistent and repeatable medium.

The conclusion drawn by the author ("caliber is less important than it was once thought to be") has been evident through testing in calibrated gelatin long before the article being discussed here ever appeared.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Tongue in cheek reply to tpd223:

Chuck, obviously you need a .300 Win. Mag or similar to kill deer with if you didn't achieve an instant one shot stop with your .308!

Placement with ANY small arm cartridge is job one. Penetration is job 1.1 and all else is gravy on the potatoes.

[481]

Tongue in cheek reply to tpd223:

Chuck, obviously you need a .300 Win. Mag or similar to kill deer with if you didn't achieve an instant one shot stop with your .308!

Placement with ANY small arm cartridge is job one. Penetration is job 1.1 and all else is gravy on the potatoes.

Ha! You beat me to it-

I was gonna recommend a .460 Wby Mag loaded with solids for those tenacious deer.

[TiroFijo]

Last January I had a clean shot at about 35 yards on a big doe, over 200lbs she was. She had no idea I was in the area and was relaxed and eating acorns when I shot her, so fight-or-flight response/etc. wasn't an issue or factor.
Even after most of her heart was blown out the side of her chest due to a .308 150gr JSP flying through her chest she managed to jump a creek, jump a ravine, and run 50-75 yards through heavy timber before laying down.

I tell that type of hunting story to folks who don't hunt, and ask if a .308 can't give "instantaneous stopping power" on a deer, why would anybody expect that bullets of far less than half the horsepower would instantly stop a meth freak?

VERY well put. But people expect magic...