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Thread: Will FSB's stop being Standard

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by careboy View Post
    a newer weapons design will become more popular
    Not necessarily at all. Plenty of "newly designed" weapons have come and gone.

  2. #32
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    Even the USMC is moving towards using the ACOG as the primary optic during basic training (see this article).

    When you think about it, the USMC doesn't get much utility out of the fixed FSB on the M16A4. If the ACOG goes down, it likely isn't on a QD mount, so forget about any speed advantage to having a fixed FSB ready to go - flipping up a BUIS is the last of your problems when you have to unscrew your ACOG and remove it from the rifle. According to this article, this is one reason the Marines are looking to standardize LaRue Tactical QD ACOG mounts, but I still think that any speed advantage of a fixed FSB over a flip front BUIS is a non-issue when you have to remove your optic to access the backup sights.

    Interestingly, the M27 IAR is issued with the flip up KAC BUIS, perhaps an indicator of things to come.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by viperashes View Post
    They're talking about upgrading existing M4s with piston kits.
    Sure they are....

  4. #34
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    It can either way I think.

    Cost and risk averse officers will be big determining factors.

    There is already a configuration out there in use without a FSB, and the Army is asking for a new rail system to replace the current drop in KAC rail. Sign of things to come? Maybe.

    Though, the Army is not NSW and has made some huge mis-steps when it comes to procuring new gear in the last 8 years, so we'll see.










    Last edited by variablebinary; 07-11-11 at 22:43.
    Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSGlock34 View Post
    Even the USMC is moving towards using the ACOG as the primary optic during basic training (see this article).

    When you think about it, the USMC doesn't get much utility out of the fixed FSB on the M16A4. If the ACOG goes down, it likely isn't on a QD mount, so forget about any speed advantage to having a fixed FSB ready to go - flipping up a BUIS is the last of your problems when you have to unscrew your ACOG and remove it from the rifle. According to this article, this is one reason the Marines are looking to standardize LaRue Tactical QD ACOG mounts, but I still think that any speed advantage of a fixed FSB over a flip front BUIS is a non-issue when you have to remove your optic to access the backup sights.

    Interestingly, the M27 IAR is issued with the flip up KAC BUIS, perhaps an indicator of things to come.



    Those are interesting articles about the Corps.






    Like I said, it's hard to change, but eventually it happens.





    I never said FSB's would go away, just that they would become an option rather then a standard.

  6. #36
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    Great conversation and question. I think it is a matter of time before iron sights become strictly back up sights.

    But one reason that will take at least a decade, at the soonest, is the supply system. The military will want to use up every last part in the pipeline before investing in a completely new system, and rightly so for cost reasons.

  7. #37
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    There isn't a single front sight that I've ever seen that could come within 1/10th of the durability of a forged steel, pinned FSB.

    I've never seen a front sight that I'd even consider over the real FSB on a fighting gun.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  8. #38
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    I think there are two separate questions here which some are confusing with one another:

    -Do I believe FSPs are a good thing to have on a fighting AR?

    and

    -Will FSP continue to be “standard” on ARs (military and commercial)?

    I believe the first is a personal preference issue so I won’t bother to comment.

    The second is coming from a marketing perspective. I believe they will continue to be standard, so long as the military keeps them standard. Companies understand most people (e.g. Bubba) want to buy something similar (visually) to what the military issues, thus they will follow suit either way if the military stays with FSPs or does change to sans FSP. As to whether or not the military changes to their M4/M16 setup, I cannot answer that, as that is out of my lane of expertise, though I do see a lot of new submissions (as another poster stated) which do not come with FSPs standard.

    The caveat is I believe AR manufacturers such as DD, BCM, etc. will still continue to offer FSP models, regardless, for the serious shoot who desires them.

    My $.02

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    If I were in a position where I had to rapidly remove a magnified optic, and deploy a folding rear sight, all under a time crunch, I think I'd be awfully happy not to have to deploy a front sight too.
    In that situation I wouldn't be standing out in the open taking fire while trying to remove an optic. The extra second (half second?) to deploy a front flip up is worth the uncluttered sight picture to me.

    MarkM-

    We all know that you are allergic to optics. I fully agree that a pinned FSB is the strongest option. But if it is not my primary sight, I'm not that concerned about the slight durability difference between a FSB and a Troy flip up.

    In Green Eyes, Black Rifles, Kyle Lamb says that he has never used his BUIS in combat. I'm sure some others have, but its not likely. No one is saying not to have BUIS, but it has been said before that you shouldn't sacrifice you weapon's primary function in order to add a secondary capability.

    An example: As an LEO I carry a primary Glock 22 sidearm, and a smaller J frame backup. Why not carry another fullsize G22 as a backup? Because it's a Backup, which means that I'm willing to give up a little capability due to the unlikely possibility of using it.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate56 View Post
    In that situation I wouldn't be standing out in the open taking fire while trying to remove an optic. The extra second (half second?) to deploy a front flip up is worth the uncluttered sight picture to me.

    I agree with you. If you need to deploy a flip up sight in that much of a hurry then you are within a range that you shouldn't need it and you should use your reflexive fire to kill the enemy. Otherwise, have your buddy cover you, get behind cover, take the extra second and flip up your sights.

    I personally hate the FSB and would love to see the entire military go to troy flip ups. There is no need for it since we are an optic driven fighting force. If for some reason we stop using optics then by all means keep it. I just really hate how noticable it is when looking through my acog or eotech. I want as much field of view as possible when engaging the enemy.

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