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Thread: Is 4140 barrel steel all that bad?

  1. #21
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    Of increasing deviation from the original question...

    No, 4140 is not "all that bad", and you are unlikely to notice a material issue. As mentioned, you also already have the barrel and are presumably shooting it and have no immediate problems, so why fix what ain't broke?

    However, it IS important to note that the in-spec material is better than 4140, and is not the same as generic 4150 (which also matters, as some makers use the generic). Better enough to run out and change the barrel you're not having any problems with? No. Better enough, at the small price increase, to choose better at the time of initial purchase? Yes.

    And finally, as mentioned, for many of us 4140 has become a red flag to other potential problems with the barrel and/or complete gun. Barrel issues tend to be twist (1:9 vs. the more desirable 1:7), chrome lining (many 4140 barrels are not), and chamber (many 4140 barrels are actually .223). Additionally, since 4140 material is less expensive than 4150 CMV, the kinds of makers that tend to use it also tend to cut corners elsewhere. And, as I understand it, 4140 will not pass the military standards for HPT and MPI or would be rejected at such a rate that whatever money the manufacturer was saving would go up in smoke from trashing failed product.

    So while I wouldn't opt for a 4140 barrel personally, I think you shoot what you have until it gives you reason to doubt it.

  2. #22
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    To put some real world experience on it, for almost 2 years the only rifle I owned was my M&P15. I shot the crap out of it every week, and it now has around 16,000 rounds through it - including plenty of rapid fire drills and practical competition shooting stages. At no time have I ever had an issue with the barrel being 4140 steel. While the rifle doesn't see many rounds nowadays, it still shoots well within practical shooting accuracy standards and I trust it entirely. As/when it does finally wear out, I'll replace it with a 4150 barrel due to the points already mentioned in this thread - but not until then.
    Dan

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Of increasing deviation from the original question...

    No, 4140 is not "all that bad", and you are unlikely to notice a material issue. As mentioned, you also already have the barrel and are presumably shooting it and have no immediate problems, so why fix what ain't broke?

    However, it IS important to note that the in-spec material is better than 4140, and is not the same as generic 4150 (which also matters, as some makers use the generic). Better enough to run out and change the barrel you're not having any problems with? No. Better enough, at the small price increase, to choose better at the time of initial purchase? Yes.

    And finally, as mentioned, for many of us 4140 has become a red flag to other potential problems with the barrel and/or complete gun. Barrel issues tend to be twist (1:9 vs. the more desirable 1:7), chrome lining (many 4140 barrels are not), and chamber (many 4140 barrels are actually .223). Additionally, since 4140 material is less expensive than 4150 CMV, the kinds of makers that tend to use it also tend to cut corners elsewhere. And, as I understand it, 4140 will not pass the military standards for HPT and MPI or would be rejected at such a rate that whatever money the manufacturer was saving would go up in smoke from trashing failed product.

    So while I wouldn't opt for a 4140 barrel personally, I think you shoot what you have until it gives you reason to doubt it.
    I get what you're saying but you're painting with an awfully wide brush there. Let's judge barrels on their individual specifications instead of over-generalizing the use of 4140.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sry0fcr View Post
    I get what you're saying but you're painting with an awfully wide brush there. Let's judge barrels on their individual specifications instead of over-generalizing the use of 4140.
    which is exactly why I started narrow and widened out, because I knew people would object to the "wide brush", not because I think it's wrong to do so in this case.

    People on the internet tend to get over-focused on winning the argument or being smarter than everyone else and so the minutiae gets focused on at the expense of the bigger, more important, picture because the minutiae is where they feel they can shine.

    Buying a new AR today I can't see any reason to opt for one with a 4140 barrel other than being somehow irrationally tied to wanting to buy a gun in stock in a shop and having severely limited choices because of it.

  5. #25
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    These barrels are threaded 1/2”-28 to accept our sound suppressors, flash hiders, muzzle brakes, and other accessories. Chambered in 5.56 NATO. Made from chrome-moly vanadium steel , heat treated to RC 25-32, and chrome lined. Fluted models feature YHM’s diamond fluting to improve rigidity and aid in barrel cooling. These barrels feature M4 style feed ramps for reliable function. 14.5" models have pinned and welded muzzle attachments to make the barrel length the legally required 16". I suppose Im wrong they are advertising CMV, this is from their site. Tho no mention of hpt/mpi it must be 4150 If CMV correct? I'm going to call I think

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    which is exactly why I started narrow and widened out, because I knew people would object to the "wide brush", not because I think it's wrong to do so in this case.

    People on the internet tend to get over-focused on winning the argument or being smarter than everyone else and so the minutiae gets focused on at the expense of the bigger, more important, picture because the minutiae is where they feel they can shine.

    Buying a new AR today I can't see any reason to opt for one with a 4140 barrel other than being somehow irrationally tied to wanting to buy a gun in stock in a shop and having severely limited choices because of it.
    Fair enough and I agree with you.

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    This is funny I guess, I called YHM since they advertise CMV on the site. A "sales/tech" rep answered so I said " I have one of your barrels it shoots fine and I'm pleased with it" to break the ice you know. Then I asked about the vanadium content, the fact that it contains it they must be 4150 steel barrels correct? Then I said many people are claiming they are 4140. First the guy says yes to the 4150 and wasn't sure what to make of the 4140 claim then he says "we get our barrel blanks from Shaw and finish them,they are what Shaw sends us".
    So I assume he means ER Shaw and I call them and explain that I have a barrel and YHM claims Shaw supplies them and then ask about 4150, he says that they supply both 4140 and 4150 cmv to various customers depending on what they specify as they(Shaw) have a small arms manf. division and still no direct answer as to whether they supply YHM with 4150cmv let alone supply them at all.
    You see I could live without the hpt/mpi qc process for what I paid for the barrel, however due to what they advertise on the YHM website I believed I was getting a 4150cmv steel barrel so it's kind if discouraging when everyone says they are 4140.Thanks
    Last edited by jet80tv; 07-11-11 at 13:18.

  8. #28
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    I think that everyone just assumed that you had already done your research and knew that it was 4140. At least I did. YHM isn't discussed here much and so I dont know off the top of my head what their barrels rare made of.

    If they say it's 4150 what causes you to doubt it and assume it's 4140?

  9. #29
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    Just the way the guy said it oh yeah they are, it was almost like he didn't even know the difference and then to say that "they are what Shaw sends us" doesn't sound like someone who knows for sure, I mean I have a YHM keyhole forged upper, diamond rail handgaurd, QDS flip up sights and gas block and they are great and the barrel is fine but they don't exactly specify what the barrel is, I've got some emails out on the matter if I get any thing concrete back I'll share it

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet80tv View Post
    This is funny I guess, I called YHM since they advertise CMV on the site. A "sales/tech" rep answered so I said " I have one of your barrels it shoots fine and I'm pleased with it" to break the ice you know. Then I asked about the vanadium content, the fact that it contains it they must be 4150 steel barrels correct? Then I said many people are claiming they are 4140. First the guy says yes to the 4150 and wasn't sure what to make of the 4140 claim then he says "we get our barrel blanks from Shaw and finish them,they are what Shaw sends us".
    So I assume he means ER Shaw and I call them and explain that I have a barrel and YHM claims Shaw supplies them and then ask about 4150, he says that they supply both 4140 and 4150 cmv to various customers depending on what they specify as they(Shaw) have a small arms manf. division and still no direct answer as to whether they supply YHM with 4150cmv let alone supply them at all.
    You see I could live without the hpt/mpi qc process for what I paid for the barrel, however due to what they advertise on the YHM website I believed I was getting a 4150cmv steel barrel so it's kind if discouraging when everyone says they are 4140.Thanks
    You have to take what any sales rep answering a phone at a firearms manufacturer says with a carton or two of salt...so much so that it's probably not even worth asking anything technical of a sales rep.

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