Is ~0.5 MOA the peak of Semi-Auto Precision

[sinister]

In August 2003 after returning from the beginning of Iraqi Freedom I shot a 30-round match at the National Matches at Camp Perry with an iron-sighted M16:

10 shots in 10 minutes, standing at 200 yards;

10 shots from standing to prone, two shots followed by a magazine change and eight shots in 70 seconds;

10 shots prone in ten minutes at 600 yards.

No sighters, no zero shots, no freebies -- every shot for record and score.

I only shot a 97.67% possible-- a 99 standing; a 95 at 300 (I believe the group was slightly high so I shot five 9s); and 99 at 600.

That earned 20th in The President's Match for a President's Hundred tab.

It took me four years to go from combat shooting to a fair level of bullseye expertise, shot on weekends and on leave with my own handloads -- which made me a better combat shooter.

Define what your goal and purpose is for having and using a weapon. It can be a toy or hobby instrument with a secondary home defense purpose. If you want to make little bitty groups you should buy a benchrest rifle. If it's a work tool then develop a mastery for it.

Most any jackass can buy a gun. It takes work to be a recognized decent shooter.

[Cameron]

I've done everything from 6+ different types of ammo, shooting both eyes open, etc.... different days, conditions, etc.... but as mentioned I've flatlined. The same results whether 5 shot groups, 10 shot groups or shooting a dot drill.
**Obviously i've had a few better groups and many far worse groups but this is the average**

As you are now consistently shooting 0.5MOA 5shot and 10shot groups, what do you think was the biggest factor you changed from this thread; FDE AR Build. My first. where you were getting MOA+ 10shot groups and 0.5MOA+ 5 shot groups?

Like the guys here said, I think shooting 100yd groups is about testing the accuracy potential for a setup. Once you are getting decent groups it is then about shooting at long(er) ranges and/or smaller targets for time, and from different positions. I have always found shooting 100yd groups boring, but shooting a competition at 200, 300, 400 and beyond is exciting and challenging.

I remember shooting a couple of ridiculously small groups at 100 and 200 yards on a Friday as I zeroed my rifle before a Saturday morning match, but being much more pumped that I shot the best score in my string at the match, and was the only one in my string to bust the bonus target, a clay bird at 200yds, while shooting from various positions and against the clock.

Cameron

[DWood]

I don't emphasize groups at 100 other than to test repeatability of the rifle, the load, and me. If I can consistently group 1 moa or less, my technique and equipment work well enough to meet my main goal of hitting a 10 X 17 steel target out to 800-1000. That is all I really care about.

As stated earlier, define your objectives and the answers become more apparent.

Here is my objective at 1000 yards. That "group" works for me.

[ALCOAR]

.......

[ColtJ]

As you are now consistently shooting 0.5MOA 5shot and 10shot groups, what do you think was the biggest factor you changed from this thread; FDE AR Build. My first. where you were getting MOA+ 10shot groups and 0.5MOA+ 5 shot groups?

Like the guys here said, I think shooting 100yd groups is about testing the accuracy potential for a setup. Once you are getting decent groups it is then about shooting at long(er) ranges and/or smaller targets for time, and from different positions. I have always found shooting 100yd groups boring, but shooting a competition at 200, 300, 400 and beyond is exciting and challenging.

I remember shooting a couple of ridiculously small groups at 100 and 200 yards on a Friday as I zeroed my rifle before a Saturday morning match, but being much more pumped that I shot the best score in my string at the match, and was the only one in my string to bust the bonus target, a clay bird at 200yds, while shooting from various positions and against the clock.

Cameron

The major changes in my groups/shooting came from the following:

• Shooting with both eyes open
• actually staring down my point of impact until it it (i used to close my eyes, look away, flinch or blink)
• keeping steady and holding the trigger back until the shot hit it's mark
• breathing
• Actually relaxing. Shot's would open up as I get too tense.
• shooting thousands of rounds
• Repeating everything the same such as head placement, etc...
• Probably some luck

As mentioned, I can use more practice and experience at the 100 yard mark but I now understand what to do and it can be done more than once under the right conditions unlike before. Although I've had a few days where I almost destroyed the rifle and quit.

Thanks to this thread I've also noticed how close minded i've been when it comes to what I can do and whats out there as well as other challenges. In my immediate area, 100 yards is all I "know" of, so I made that my goal. Longer ranges and other types of shooting and hunting would be awesome, i just need to find such things/places in my area.

I don't emphasize groups at 100 other than to test repeatability of the rifle, the load, and me. If I can consistently group 1 moa or less, my technique and equipment work well enough to meet my main goal of hitting a 10 X 17 steel target out to 800-1000. That is all I really care about.

As stated earlier, define your objectives and the answers become more apparent.

Here is my objective at 1000 yards. That "group" works for me.

Thanks for posting what are you using exactly to accomplish this? Sounds real interesting.

[NorthDakota]

Slight tangent to illustrate potential:

http://www.gunblast.com/Bushmaster_Varminter.htm

Not sure if 1/4 MOA is necessary but sure fun trying

[Cameron]

Slight tangent to illustrate potential:

http://www.gunblast.com/Bushmaster_Varminter.htm

Not sure if 1/4 MOA is necessary but sure fun trying

I think most here are a little more sophisticated that to accept a the gun writer's awe inspired gushing about 1/4" 3 shot groups.

I once shot a 3 shot group that look very similar to the authors in the article, at 100yds, off hand with an EOTech on a 10.5" LMT chrome lined barrel. I just couldn't ever duplicate the group... Does that mean my LMT SBR is a 1/4MOA carbine??

Cameron

[DWood]

Thanks for posting what are you using exactly to accomplish this? Sounds real interesting.

That was a GAP custom build on a Surgeon action with a Rock 5R 24" barrel; sold long ago to an LE sniper. My new game is an LMT MWS.

[T2CH]

Speaking of GAP, Frank (AKA Lowlight on SH) claimed he shot a .25 moa group the day George gave him the rifle. That rifle is a GAP-10.
The rifles are capable of doing it...

[USMC1341]

My take on it is this, when it comes to precision autos. Anything over .5moa at one 100yards, and you better figure out what is the problem is. Either the rifle, the ammo, yourself, or some combination of that.
.25moa is the holy grail, that is what everyone wants, but few can achieve.

Still shooting at real distance is far more interesting and fun.