Is ~0.5 MOA the peak of Semi-Auto Precision

[Alaskapopo]

My take on it is this, when it comes to precision autos. Anything over .5moa at one 100yards, and you better figure out what is the problem is. Either the rifle, the ammo, yourself, or some combination of that.
.25moa is the holy grail, that is what everyone wants, but few can achieve.

Still shooting at real distance is far more interesting and fun.

Sorry but that is unrealsistic. For a semi auto precision rifle to achieve .5 moa is remarkable its not the standard. .75 is more reasonable to expect. For boltguns its a bit better. But to say any group over .5 moa is wrong is stupid.
Pat

[Littlelebowski]

Pat said it for me. Of course, I guess one could always cherry pick three shot groups instead of an average of five and ten shot groups.....

[Colt guy]

[QUOTE=Artos;1044934]put out at least 3 wind flags and learn to read them...a 45x scope will help too.

www.benchrest.com is the place to go if you want to shrink groups...there are a couple guys over ther 'trying' to build custom 6ppc AR's that can keep up with the turn bolts.

Reloading could help with benchrest bullets & using lapua brass but what is the point?? To get every last drop, you may have to seat the bullet close to the lands which turns your semi into a single shot most of the time since they wont fit the mag.

I agree with Artos
Windflags
Neck sizing
custom bullets
Front rest and rear bag
etc etc etc

How good you and your rifle can get UNKNOWN

but you will learn a lot about you and your rifle

A half inch without wind flags or rest is very impressive

I am currently working with a AR trying to do the same thing as you. I want to see if it can keep up with a good bolt gun.

[OMD]

Like everyone has said..move on. If you want tighter groups for self-confidence, then handload...you will always be able to get better groups than factory, but it takes time and patience and a lot of trial and error. What really would be the point though if you are already at a price point you can live with at .5 MOA factory rounds? If you are doing long range small varmint hunting I could see some more fine tuning. Other than that huge waste of your time. I wish my rig would hit a consistent .5 MOA, but MOA is all I need, if that.

[Colt guy]

My take on it is this, when it comes to precision autos. Anything over .5moa at one 100yards, and you better figure out what is the problem is. Either the rifle, the ammo, yourself, or some combination of that.
.25moa is the holy grail, that is what everyone wants, but few can achieve.

Still shooting at real distance is far more interesting and fun.

You are correct 1/4 group at 100 yards is the holy grail. But get real if you can shoot something around 1/2 that's very good for a Benchrest gun and an AR would be just wonderful.

Here are the results of the St Louis match last month to give you an idea what these custom made guns do in the real world. Keep in mind these folks can shoot and are experts using wind flags custom bullets and lots of practice.

http://nbrsa.org/matchreports/2011/2...eClubofSTL.pdf

I am currently working with a AR with the intention of see how far I can go with it. Custom bullets match primers Lapua brass. I have a private 100 yard range benchrest rest wind flags. And on a normal afternoon it will just stay under .5 inch with some groups going to .250 but most are around .5. I have a single shot benchrest gun in 223 and it can hold .250 if I can call the wind and mirage.

How far can I go with this will depend on time and money but the AR will always be less accurate then a bolt gun till someone figures out how to shoot tight neck chambers. Or find a way to work around this problem with the chamber. IMO

[gunfighter48]

My last AR was a Olympic Arms that I installed a 20" heavy barrel on (.96 in if memory is correct), free floated hand guard, smoothed out trigger. With hand loaded ammo, tailored to this rifle, I could get 5 shot groups (slow fire) down to 5/8" at 100 yrds, on occasion. But more usual groups were around 3/4". I considered that to be an excellent group size for that rifles at the time. I often out shot other guys on the firing line and they couldn't understand how a Oly Arms rifle could shoot that good. What they didn't understand was that it took two years of tinkering with bullet weights, types, and various powders to get to that point.

[Kill By Number]

I would like to see pictures of three of the .5" 10 shot factory ammo groups. I would also then love to see what equipment you used in your builds. I think that is excellent accuracy for a non-benchrest AR with factory loads. And anyone talking about .5" being the max acceptable, please post some of your 10 shot groups and equipment pics too. I'm not trying to disrespect anyone but here is a lot of talk about group sizes online and very few pictures of said groups.