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Thread: A tutorial: acquiring an SBR manufacturer direct (Form 4) with a Trust

  1. #1
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    A tutorial: acquiring an SBR manufacturer direct (Form 4) with a Trust

    Disclaimer: I am not a JD, but this is the direction I received from mine. This is how I got an SBR direct from Noveske.

    1. Find a Class III dealer in your area. You can expect at least a $100 transfer fee
    2. Have the Class III dealer fax their info to your manufacturer/dealer of choice
    3. Place the order for your SBR with your manufacturer/dealer. They will fill out the paperwork to transfer the weapon to your Class III. This will take a minimum of three weeks.
    4. Find a local lawyer, go to guntrustlawyer.com or take a risk with Quicken to make your own trust
    5. Sign, witness and notorize your trust.
    6. Sign, witness and notorize your certification of trust. (Do not mail this to the ATF)
    7. Fill out a certificate of compliance (ATF Form 5330.20).
    8. Either open a bank account in the trust's name and pay for your SBR from that account, or purchase your SBR with your money and write a statement which indicates that you contributed X number of dollars to [the name of your trust].
    9. List additional trustees on a separate document, called the "First Amendment of the [your name] trust". Have your additional trustees sign, witness and get notorized.
    10. When your weapon arrives at your Class III dealer, go there and have them fill out the bottom portion of the form 4 in duplicate. Make sure they do it properly (see example below).
    11. Fill out your portion of the form 4 (see example below)
    12. Fill out an assignments page to "assign" the ownership of your SBR to the trust
    13. Mail the ATF your $200 check, the form 4 filled out in duplicate (must be an original double sided copy), a COPY of your trust, a COPY of your certificate of compliance, a COPY of your first amendment to your trust (if you have one), a copy of the assignments page, and a copy of the document stating where the money came from for the purchase of the SBR
    14. Wait.


    I think that's about it. Good luck.

    Form 4 example (PDF)
    Last edited by panzerr; 07-12-11 at 15:14.
    a former meatpuppet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by panzerr View Post
    Disclaimer: I am not a JD, but this is the direction I received from mine. This is how I got an SBR direct from Noveske.

    1. Find a Class III dealer in your area. You can expect at least a $100 transfer fee
    2. Have the Class III dealer fax their info to your manufacturer/dealer of choice
    3. Place the order for your SBR with your manufacturer/dealer. They will fill out the paperwork to transfer the weapon to your Class III. This will take a minimum of three weeks.
    4. Find a local lawyer, go to guntrustlawyer.com or take a risk with Quicken to make your own trust
    5. Sign, witness and notorize your trust.
    6. Sign, witness and notorize your certification of trust. (Do not mail this to the ATF)
    7. Fill out a certificate of compliance (ATF Form 5330.20).
    8. Either open a bank account in the trust's name and pay for your SBR from that account, or purchase your SBR with your money and write a statement which indicates that you contributed X number of dollars to [the name of your trust].
    9. List additional trustees on a separate document, called the "First Amendment of the [your name] trust". Have your additional trustees sign, witness and get notorized.
    10. When your weapon arrives at your Class III dealer, go there and have them fill out the bottom portion of the form 4 in duplicate. Make sure they do it properly (see example below).
    11. Fill out your portion of the form 4 (see example below)
    12. Fill out an assignments page to "assign" the ownership of your SBR to the trust
    13. Mail the ATF your $200 check, the form 4 filled out in duplicate (must be an original double sided copy), a COPY of your trust, a COPY of your certificate of compliance, a COPY of your first amendment to your trust (if you have one), a copy of the assignments page, and a copy of the document stating where the money came from for the purchase of the SBR
    14. Wait.


    I think that's about it. Good luck.

    Form 4 example (PDF)
    Yep, this is how I got my Noveske in March.

    Good write-up

  3. #3
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    Yea I just to talk to my lawyer last night about opening a trust he's charging $750 out the door . But I don't understand the part why I can't pay in cash for anything I buy. Why I need a bank accont in the name of my trust..? Do you know why I havent talk to my lawyer yet today..?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiddly_foo View Post
    he's charging $750 out the door
    Damn, dude...that's *several* hundred dollars more than I'm spending on the same thing this week.
    ********************
    Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter. -- Ernest Hemingway

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    Because you don't own the things in your trust. A separate account makes it easy to prove "who" bought the rifle.

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    From Texas code:


    Sec.*112.006.**ADDITIONS TO TRUST PROPERTY. Property may be added to an existing trust from any source in any manner unless the addition is prohibited by the terms of the trust or the property is unacceptable to the trustee.


    As long as it is properly registered to the trust, it doesn't matter how it was paid for. The NFA act only controls transfers and says a tax must be paid, but does not care who pays the tax or for the item.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinsonr View Post
    From Texas code:


    Sec.*112.006.**ADDITIONS TO TRUST PROPERTY. Property may be added to an existing trust from any source in any manner unless the addition is prohibited by the terms of the trust or the property is unacceptable to the trustee.


    As long as it is properly registered to the trust, it doesn't matter how it was paid for. The NFA act only controls transfers and says a tax must be paid, but does not care who pays the tax or for the item.
    Same goes for Nevada. The trust I draft allows anyone to add property to the trust while the Trustor is alive. No account is needed unless the trust is specifically holding onto cash.

    The ATF doesn't care where the $200 tax payment comes from, so long as the check/mo clears.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinsonr View Post
    The NFA act only controls transfers and says a tax must be paid, but does not care who pays the tax or for the item.
    So you don't think there are any concerns about a straw purchase? Couldn't it be argued that you are paying for it and the trust is receiving it? That is how it has been explained to me, and yes I understand it's the overly cautious way to do it.

  9. #9
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    Sure you could be overly cautious and use a dedicated account, but in the end you don't have to prove it was purchased by the trust. If you as the grantor owned an existing nfa item, you would just submit the form 4 and $200 and once received you add it to the trust's assets.

    Nothing else is needed to make it official. There is no need for the trust to pay for the item.

  10. #10
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    The way it was explained to me is that even with the separate account, YOU are the one that is supplying the money to the account, so the "money trail" will lead back to you regardless, so what's the difference?

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