What are reasonable performance benchmarks for a Tactical Pistol 1 Class

[Kool Aid]

Former Team members opened a range in my area and recently started offering tactical pistol courses. I took the first offering of what they call Tactical Pistol 1. It is the second in a multi-course program that begins with a Fundamentals course where students learn the basics of the draw, loading and unloading. TP 1 is focussed on drawing and reloads, with most drills and testing done at 5 yards. We also worked on shooting on the move (forward, backwards, lateral).

They want the courses to be challenging, and they tailor some of the drills to each student based on that student's skill. Tactical Pistol 1 is set up on a pass/fail system based primarily on timed drills at the end of the three hour course. None of the students in my class had passing scores, and since they are using me largely as a barometer, they are considering changes to the course and requirements. The following is a list of the test standards and my scores. Please share your opinion on the appropriateness of these drills and if you think the standard is reasonable compared to other level 1 courses you have taken.

All tests done from 5 yards, two attempts at each drill, and one clean run is required (no misses).

1) Draw from holster and hit a 4" dot in less than 2.0 seconds. I scored 1.65 seconds.

2) Draw, fire one shot, emergency reload from slidelock, one more shot on 4" dot in less than 5 seconds. I scored 4.6 seconds.

3) Draw and fire a controlled pair of shots at a 4" circle in less than 2.5 seconds. I scored 2.1 seconds.

4) Draw and fire 16 shots on a 8" circle in less than 12 seconds. An emergency reload from slidelock is required somewhere in the string. I scored 9.9 seconds with one miss, then 12.3 seconds with no misses. Epic fail.

5) El Presidente-style drill. Draw from holster, back to targets with 180 degree spin & draw, emergency reload from slidelock after 6 shots, in less than 12 seconds. Three targets, three feet apart, all hits have to be in A zone (roughly 6" x 8"). I scored 9.8 seconds with one miss, then 11.6 clean.

So, are these parameters reasonable for a level 1 class, or do you think its more suited to a level 2 tactical pistol course?

Edit: The course has been restructured, and I've posted an AAR/Course Review in the "Misc Training Course Announcements & AAR" forum of M4c. Thank you to all who shared their opinions in this thread.

[YVK]

Figuring out what's reasonable would require drill validation by shooters of various abilities. From what you've listed, the only common drill is El Pres, but it has been validated at 10 yards and requires a reload after first six. To me it seems that all of your benchmarks are too high for an entry-level class. I consider myself a solid intermediate, and from what I can gather, I may have hard time meeting those. I don't shoot at 5 yards though, my closest distance is 7 so who knows...

My general experience that instructors with prior experience of their own have a good understanding what performance to expect on their drills from shooters of different skill levels.

[Kool Aid]

Figuring out what's reasonable would require drill validation by shooters of various abilities. From what you've listed, the only common drill is El Pres, but it has been validated at 10 yards and requires a reload after first six. To me it seems that all of your benchmarks are too high for an entry-level class. I consider myself a solid intermediate, and from what I can gather, I may have hard time meeting those. I don't shoot at 5 yards though, my closest distance is 7 so who knows...My general experience that instructors with prior experience of their own have a good understanding what performance to expect on their drills from shooters of different skill levels.

My thoughts as well, YVK. This was the first offering of the course and it is still in the development phase. The primary instructor has vast experience training the elite, but less experience with civilians.

[Littlelebowski]

What is their website URL?

[Kool Aid]

What is their website URL?

http://www.blucoreshootingcenter.com/

[Littlelebowski]

http://www.blucoreshootingcenter.com/

That site has my BS detecting antenna twitching for some reason.

[d90king]

That site has my BS detecting antenna twitching for some reason.

SEALS, other SF or EOD meter?

[C4IGrant]

Since they will be getting everyone from Civy's to LE to Mil, I think that the standards are to high (especially since there isn't a "pre-tac pistol 1 class) for the students to grow with.

For me, basic pistol classes should spend the MAJORITY of the time on trigger manipulation (as this is the hardest thing to master). Spend time showing the students that they do have a flinch and then show them how to get rid of it.

Then show them sight alignment, stance, grip, etc. These things alone will occupy two days for certain.

I think it is good to run competitions (adds stress), but I don't know that I would fail anyone (as they are just learning to shoot).

YMMV

Edit to add, I just read their website. When I teach NEW shooters (which is all I deal with), I pick one element (like reloads or malfunction clearing) and spend about 2 hours on that one specific skill set. Then, when I see that student again next month, I hit what we just covered to make sure that they practiced it on their own and are still doing it correctly.

For me, spending 3-4 hours and covering a bunch of different skill sets and then expecting the student to be able to pass a test for each thing learned is nearly impossible (assuming that they have no prior training).



C4

[Littlelebowski]

SEALS, other SF or EOD meter?

All of the above. Such flashy, blatant advertising.

[gringop]

Those standards are totally inappropriate for any but intermediate to advanced tactical or competition shooters.

Did these instructors ever teach anything when they were SEALing and EODing and whatnot?

And they need to fire their web designer. Any menu that makes me chase a moving button is retarded.

Gringop