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Thread: "F' You and your High powered Rifle"

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoom15 View Post
    ...As much as I am for gun rights, CCW permits are ridiculously easy to obtain in Indiana and NO guidelines are given to you. I personally feel it should be like obtaining a driver's license and that a test and instruction is necessary, atleast hand out a rule book of acceptable behavior...
    It is obvious you are not for gun rights and it is equally obvious what is ridiculous (and it isn't the permit system in Indiana). I do agree, however, that you need guidelines but it is on what the 2nd Amendment really says. I personally feel that you should move to NY or CA so you can feel safer, far away from those of us with Indiana carry permits.

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed L. View Post
    My only question is if you use an SBR to defend your home and the police confiscate it in wake of a home defense shooting, as they usually do, how do you handle the matter with the ATF since it represents a transfer of ownership-if even a temporary one?

    And will this have an effect on your ownership and future ownership with the ATF?
    Really? I think someone is guilty of overthinking.



    This discussion of type of firearm used in self defense also raises the question of modification. "Uh oh! You shot the bad guy w/a 3lb competition trigger instead of the stock 5-7 lb trigger!" Who is going to know that? Oh, and in a justifiable case, it shouldn't matter. Just like using an AK/Uzi/insert villianous-scary-sounding firearm here.

  3. #33
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    I forgot to add the hypothetical of dropping in an heavier than stock trigger into your firearm. Would you be in the same "trouble"?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by kh86 View Post
    Really? I think someone is guilty of overthinking.
    And SBR requires paperwork with the ATF to legally own. It is not the same as a standard AR. Thus if you shoot someone with it in self defense and the local police take temporary possession of it as they typically do with firearms used in defensive shootings, it is technically a transfer of ownership--even though it is temporary. Transfering ownership requires paperwork with the ATF.

    This is why I asked about a situation like this.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kh86 View Post
    Really? I think someone is guilty of overthinking.
    How many NFA weapons do you own? Are you familiar with the process of obtaining one? There is an ocean of difference between what you're talking about and a weapon that is highly regulated and taxed by the ATF.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed L. View Post
    And SBR requires paperwork with the ATF to legally own. It is not the same as a standard AR. Thus if you shoot someone with it in self defense and the local police take temporary possession of it as they typically do with firearms used in defensive shootings, it is technically a transfer of ownership--even though it is temporary. Transfering ownership requires paperwork with the ATF.

    This is why I asked about a situation like this.
    You're right on point Ed. I do not know the answer but I have heard it brought up several times.

  7. #37
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    I disagree. I can specifically recall reading about some cases (even a few recently in AZ) where the police suspect that the "victim" was involved in illegal activity or that there was more to the story but the actions at that time were deemed "justifiable".

    Remember the case in New York last year? Someone used a semi-auto AK to defend his home from some local "gangsters". It wasn't the weapon that was the issue. According to the prosecution it was his actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Glockster View Post
    This is an excellent point and it serves to illustrate why the AR/M4 is a good choice for self-defense and a gun like the AK is not. Even though your AK is perfectly legal, it has been so demonized by the media as the bad guy's weapon that it puts your attorney at a disadvantage if there is ever a question about the incident. I'm not saying get rid of your AK, but be aware of the fact that if you are in a shooting you don't want anything about your actions to be questionable. For another example, you are better off with a defensive gun named the "Model XYZ" rather than one named the "Pit Bull."

    It's also only a little bit of a stretch to say that window decals, bumper stickers, and wall posters that proudly proclaim "I don't dial 911" and such are a no-no.

    Your age and overall character and demeanor are factors, too. In the Beckwith example, suppose he had been a twenty-two year old with somewhat of a checkered past himself. Could that have made a difference in how the cops treated him? You bet it would.

    Again, I'm referring primarily to the potential for you to lose a civil suit filed by a wounded perp than your going to prison for the shooting.

    The point is that you have to think about your total "footprint" of potential liability and act accordingly.



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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Glockster View Post
    This is an excellent point and it serves to illustrate why the AR/M4 is a good choice for self-defense and a gun like the AK is not. Even though your AK is perfectly legal, it has been so demonized by the media as the bad guy's weapon that it puts your attorney at a disadvantage if there is ever a question about the incident.
    It is true that AR/M4 type is now easier to paint as a 'patrol rifle' or police rifle or a firearm similar to what the police use.

    It is also true that the AK is an iconic firearm often associated with insurgents, terrorists, even spree killers, etc. But if you are talking about places with Castle Doctrine, this will not be an issue unless you did something very wrong beyond the justified use of deadly force, in which case, you would be in trouble whatever firearm you used.

    I imagine you could find out how many millions of semiatuo AKs were improted into the US and are now owned by civilians to point out that these are hardly uncommon firearms these days.

    Not everyone can afford an AR, and an AK is an more economic alternative, though there are issues with possible overpenetration of the 7.62x39mm round vs the .223, and as I wrote before, it depends on the state and local laws and legal environment.

    Here are some cases of homeowners who used AKs to defend themselves without issues:

    http://www.clickorlando.com/news/15002418/detail.html: "Police: Victim Fired AK-47 At Home Invader
    3 Men Sought After Storming House, Police Say."

    http://www.wftv.com/news/13542354/detail.html "Resident Uses AK-47 To Kill Home Invader."

    And finally, someone who used an AK type for home defense in NY State without issues: "“Newsday, December 8, 2008: Two would-be burglars chose the wrong house to invade when they broke into an Inwood home early yesterday morning. They were greeted by the resident, who opened fire on them with his AK-47-style assault rifle, Nassau police said. It was 5:32 a.m. Sunday when the male resident, 36, "heard suspicious noises coming from the front door of his home, and armed himself with a Romanian SAR-1 rifle," a variant of the Soviet AK-47 assault weapon, a police report said. The two men "broke through the front door and were confronted by the victim, who shot four times toward the subjects," the police report said. The burglars ran off, apparently uninjured, and four rifle shell casings were later found at the house, police said. One of the men appeared to have been carrying a knife, the resident reported. Fourth Squad detectives are investigating.”



    Anyway, my main points are:

    1. Times are different and the use of AR type firearms are far more widespread among police as well as ownership is much higher. Even AKs are far more common.

    2. It depends where you live--the laws and legal environment. What is true in one state and legal environment may not be true in another.

    3. It ultimately depends on the situation & the justifiability of the shooting.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Remember the case in New York last year? Someone used a semi-auto AK to defend his home from some local "gangsters". It wasn't the weapon that was the issue. According to the prosecution it was his actions.
    The guy had some beef with some local gangsters and retreated to the safety of his house, retrieved a NY state legal Wasr or something similar, left the safety of his house, went to reconfront them, and fired rounds into the ground near the gangsters on the street.

    Once he had retreated to the safety of his house, the situation was over as was the threat. If they ahd tried to force their way into his house it would be a different matter.

    Even in more restrictive states, deadly physical force is permitted for self defense in situations where you face the immediate and unavoidable danger of death or serious physical injury. It's hard to agrgue that the siituation was unavoidable when you safely got inside your house, retrieved a firearm, and then left the safety of your house to confront them again.

    The only exception to this would be if the gangsters were a threat to someone else's life outside. This is a different situation, nad you had better be sure of exactly what the situation is before getting involved--and that is another different subject.
    Last edited by Ed L.; 07-15-11 at 02:13.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuietShootr View Post
    The statement in blue is not compatible with the statement in red. In fact, it's tore up from the floor up.

    You may now sit in the corner with our Jersey crew...and who let you into Indiana anyway?
    How on earth do you figure?

    It is ridiculously easy to obtain your CCW permit in indiana, you fill out some paper work, get a background check and have your prints taken. Easy, that's is a fact. (Edit: I am NOT saying that it is a bad thing, but why not offer people some instruction??)

    Are you saying any state that has ANY other requirement than that is "tore up from the floor up"?

    Carrying a handgun is serious, for the majority of people on here, rules and common sense may not be a problem...but there are a lot of stupid people in this world. Handing out a rule book or requiring a 4 hr class to better arm people with knowledge on such an issue is FAR from anti-gun.
    Last edited by tdoom15; 07-15-11 at 02:41.

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