Which is more accurate: M-14 or SVD Dragunov?

[sjc3081]

Average would be around 4-7 MOA, in a shooter's hands. .mil M-14s are not in very good condition at this point. I wasn't even a twinkle in my mommie's undies when the M14 was replaced, so I do not have first-hand knowledge of original issued rack-grade '14s. The decent ones were mostly converted to NM guns or DM guns, but the Navy is still bandying about with a bunch of 'em. They are in less than *pristine* condition, and I doubt that any of those are shooting under 5 MOA.

I am sure that I will take a bunch of shit for saying this, but the '14 was a little overrated. It harkens back to the days when guns were wood and steel and launched .30 cal pills, when men were men, commies were red, and politicians were honest.

Good gun? Damn straight. Best ever? Hardly. In comparison to the SVD? Not as accurate. Though the SVD barrel is relatively thin it does not demonstrate POI shift for realisitc usage. Remember also, you are comparing apples and peanuts here.

Purpose built precision guns such as LRB, Fulton Armory, or the better offerings from SA should put you in sub 1.5 MOA with good factory ammo. I would expect sub 1 MOA with properly selected or personally-crafted ammo.

Moa with match ammo and 2 to 3 moa with good surplus.

[Jay Cunningham]

I know this is bold but are you smoking crack ? 4 to 7moa ? Moa with match ammo and 2 to 3 moa with good surplus.

I'm no expert but I'd have to agree with 2 to 3 moa; 4-7 is excessive. The M-14 is a well-built rifle that should shoot into 4 moa.

[Failure2Stop]

I know this is bold but are you smoking crack ? 4 to 7moa ? Moa with match ammo and 2 to 3 moa with good surplus.

RACK grade - i.e.- I walk down to the armory and pull out that M14 that has been in service on a ship in the ocean taken care of by sailors that have smashed their way through steel hatches and along bulkheads since, oh I don't know, 1967, then fill the magazine with loose M80 ball that was last rolled 20 years ago, and take an average shooter in the prone position, and yes, your average group will be 4 to 7 MOA.

This was about a rack grade M14.

Average would be around 4-7 MOA, in a shooter's hands.

If you racked the gun I am sure your results would be better, but for military issued shooter/rifle/ammo, this is what I have seen.

Now talking about the potential of a new gun:

Purpose built precision guns such as LRB, Fulton Armory, or the better offerings from SA should put you in sub 1.5 MOA with good factory ammo. I would expect sub 1 MOA with properly selected or personally-crafted ammo.

This is what a new, well constructed rifle is capable of in the hands of someone that knows how to shoot it or is benching it.

[Failure2Stop]

unnecessary post adding nothing to the content of the thread other than to beat the dead horse.

[Jay Cunningham]

What is your agenda Failure2Stop?

[Failure2Stop]

Agenda?
Overreaction to a minor slight.
Possiblly stupidity coupled with sleep deprivation (I spend too much time on this forum and not enough in my bed).

[sjc3081]

Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics, even if you win you are still retarded.

[SuicideHz]

Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics, even if you win you are still retarded.

Wow, just waiting to throw that one out there huh? Where's the pic of the special kid breaking the ribbon?

Anyway,


I would expect the SVD to be like most Soviet arms- good at what they were designed for and nothing else.

Is that a decent assumption? A good well built, correctly built SVD with match ammo ought to be able to shoot damn good with the correct optic dialed in in the hands of the shooter trained to fire it, correct?

But for you, me and the ammo we can get our hands on the M14 probably works a little better, no?

[STAFF]

Please keep your comments technical in nature. Argue your POV with proof, not insults.

[wild_wild_wes]

What do you think of my optics candidates?

I was leaning to the 4X Valdala because I'm not expecting "sniper" lever accuracy, but I've not seen any M-14s with low mag glass on them, except for ACOGs, which of course sit too high and have insufficient eye relief. Another choice in the same catagory might be the Hensoldt 4X types seen on SDM G3s, but I don't think those are being made anymore. I used to have a Zeiss 4X (and liked it) on my HK-91 many years ago when they could be bought new, but that rifle didn't shoot for shit.

As far as the Aimpoint option, I asked the question in the Optics forum "what is the longest distance you have used your Aimpoint", but I did not bias the question by saying why I wanted the info, what application I had in mind. But with the longer range possible with the 7.62, having a non-magnifying optic seems a waste, partially nullifying the rationality of a rifle in that caliber.