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Thread: Do you think building your own defensive rifle is a legal nightmare?

  1. #1
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    Do you think building your own defensive rifle is a legal nightmare?

    First off I wanted to post this question in the "general" page but I did not have access.

    Ok I'll preface my question with a scolding that my friend got from the instructor at our last pistol training class. See he had the 3.5lbs disconnecter in his Glock and the instructor made it clear that a lighter trigger dose not belong in a carry gun. The instructor is active LEO and claims to testify as an expert witness on a federal level on a somewhat regular bases. He claimed that if you find yourself in court after a defensive shooting that the prosecution will have a field day. He said that he has testified in court where the defendant was accused of having a "hair trigger" and the prosecution built a case around that one point and made the defendant look like a vigilante.
    I have a few concerns about this claim but overall I guess it's possible.

    So with that in mind. All of us here that have built our own AR's for whatever reason, are we setting ourselves up for disaster if, God forbid, we ever use our AR's in a defensive shooting?

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    Quote Originally Posted by prodgi View Post
    First off I wanted to post this question in the "general" page but I did not have access.

    Ok I'll preface my question with a scolding that my friend got from the instructor at our last pistol training class. See he had the 3.5lbs disconnecter in his Glock and the instructor made it clear that a lighter trigger dose not belong in a carry gun. The instructor is active LEO and claims to testify as an expert witness on a federal level on a somewhat regular bases. He claimed that if you find yourself in court after a defensive shooting that the prosecution will have a field day. He said that he has testified in court where the defendant was accused of having a "hair trigger" and the prosecution built a case around that one point and made the defendant look like a vigilante.
    I have a few concerns about this claim but overall I guess it's possible.

    So with that in mind. All of us here that have built our own AR's for whatever reason, are we setting ourselves up for disaster if, God forbid, we ever use our AR's in a defensive shooting?

    So, if I build a rifle:

    16" CHF Barrel/DI Gas/FSB
    A2 FH
    DD 9.5 FSP Rail
    Colt Upper
    Colt Lower
    Colt RE
    Standard Collapsible Stock
    Removable carry handle with Irons
    A2 Grip
    30 Round Magazine

    What's the difference with the rifle I built or the Colt LE6920 I bought and had some upgrades done to it?

    Where's the "Legal" ramifications?

    Is the rifle I built some how more lethal than an exact rifle I could buy from the open market?

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    As a LEO...

    I disagree with that, of course all of the firearms related prosecutions (almost all federal) I have seen are in the very gun friendly state of Alaska.

    Particularly with the kind of folks I see posting here, I don't see a modified gun as a serious problem.

    I have not seen AUSA's or DA's make any argument about the particulars of a weapon unless that modification was actually illegal or controlled (short barrel, full auto, suppressor etc.)

    Others may have had other experiences and you will probably get more detailed replies than this, but there is my opinion based on my experience.


    ***ETA***
    Dave, certainly not disagreeing with you, just the idea that because you modified your rifle that you would be more open to attack by a prosecutor.

    See post below
    Last edited by Preliator; 07-19-11 at 23:26. Reason: clarification at bottom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Preliator View Post
    I disagree with that, of course all of the firearms related prosecutions (almost all federal) I have seen are in the very gun friendly state of Alaska.

    Particularly with the kind of folks I see posting here, I don't see a modified gun as a serious problem.

    I have not seen AUSA's or DA's make any argument about the particulars of a weapon unless that modification was actually illegal or controlled (short barrel, full auto, suppressor etc.)

    Others may have had other experiences and you will probably get more detailed replies than this, but there is my opinion based on my experience.
    Disagree with what/who?

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    I'm no lawyer and even they sometimes don't know the law but it has been my understanding that in order for you to go to trial the prosecution would have to believed that you committed a crime. Now having said that if you killed someone in self defense you will be arrested and stand before a judge and a prosecuting attorney if the prosecution is satisfied that you are innocent he will not press charges and you are free to go. I cannot imagine that PA would have inspected what ever weapon you used or let alone even look at it until you are a waiting trial. I might be wrong but I don't know.
    My thought is that if you are charged then it is likely that somewhere along the line you did a big no no. At that point everything comes into play like why did you modify this weapon and so on.

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    I guess that my thoughts stem from the questions I've been asking around here about muzzle devices. If there is any weight to this concern I wonder how a device like a Battle Comp would look in the eye of a PA or jury. "So, MR.X. You installed this device on your weapon so you could get multiple hits on Mr. Dead Dirtbad."
    Maybe I'm a little paranoid but it's something to figure out ahead of time don't you think?

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    Should that instructor's advice be sound, it's an outrageous idea that we would be free to defend ourselves, just don't be overly efficient or proficient. Make sure you appear to be an "ordinary" shmuck who just happened to somehow manage to use the firearm succesfully in self defense.
    Last edited by BudJr; 07-19-11 at 22:07.

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    I don't think it's an issue if it's a justified shooting. The lower is the weapon anyway. How much of it has to be put together by you to be considered home built? The upper, the lower. Is adding an ambi safety building, switching out a stock. Most people in law enforcement wouldn't know the difference anyway.

    As far as the 3.5 trigger connector in the Glock, it's bad information. My department issued Glock 23 was purchased in 2000 and has well over 16,000 rounds through it and they all came with the 3.5 connector. The Glock 34 and 35 use that trigger from the factory. 3.5 is not pounds anyway it metric, kilograms maybe. When I went through my last Glock armorer course they repeated what has been said by years and said the 3.5 is usually between 4.0 and 4.5 lbs.
    "The peace we have within us is most often expressed in how we treat others"

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    It really comes down to *ugh, sigh* how "justified" the victim was in their case of self defense... and then you move on from there.

    Just stick to a full size .38spc and or a duck gun and you'll be fine :/

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    This is not legal advice and I am not your lawyer. A couple of thoughts:

    1.) You would have to find yourself on the wrong end of a bad shoot to worry about this.

    2.) Rules of evidence are extremely broad so something may come in. Anything tending to make a material fact more or less likely, including motive, intent, preparation, etc. However, I don't think a muzzle comp would come in to impugn your character unless it went to one of the aforementioned 'MIMIC' exceptions. (Motive, Intent, Mistake, Identity, Common Fraud/Scheme, among others).

    3.) A hair trigger may or may not hurt your case. For example, first degree murder. Intoxication + hair trigger, or mistake + hair trigger and you may have a good defense against intentional homicide (first degree murder). I would argue that a lighter trigger may negate intent, although general malice would still be present for a Murder 2 charge.

    Moral of the story? Make sure you shoot to stop a objectively reasonable, proportional threat.

    Again, this is not legal advice. Just my musings.
    Last edited by Kchen986; 07-19-11 at 22:18.

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