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Thread: Do you think building your own defensive rifle is a legal nightmare?

  1. #31
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    You beat me to it stickman. But in the case of me verses badguy, I'm not going to be thinking what the DA is going to say or what LEO might do. I'm not a nut who's going to blast away indiscriminately, but if it's my ar or my 22 pistol , badguy is goin to have a bad day. Hopefully I will never have this situation happen to me, I'm not LEO or MIL, but I have been unfortunate enough to see pistol fire within 25 yards of me (on street, not range). No warning, no fight, yelling or anything and the only thing I thought of was duck! Quickly followed by god I wish I had a gun. I wasnt the target but it was TOO close. Gotta get ccw. It wasn't cool, and it freaked me out a tad. So I guess this ramble sums up like so: if it happens, whatever you have is better than what I had( nothing ), and if I was the target, you wouldn't have been reading this.
    To all armed forces, my hat is tipped and my thanks are endless.

  2. #32
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    I could see some people get a little excited if you had "Zombies" all over the rifle.

  3. #33
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    ........
    Last edited by charmcitycop; 09-21-13 at 18:00.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artiz View Post
    I could see some people get a little excited if you had "Zombies" all over the rifle.
    Or having something like "born to kill hippies" painted on the gun.

  5. #35
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    Here it is plain and simple to the OP:

    If you do anything LEGAL and have to stop and think of the possible future ramifications then you have already lost. If it is legal to do then do it if you want. You can be brought up on all kinds of crazy civil and criminal charges if you get the right douche-bag doing it. That is what the lib-tarts on the left want; they can't make laws to stop all of the stuff they do not want you to do so they will make you so worried about it you will stop on your own.

    As for the LEO shooting instructor; sounds like you need to find a new one. For even bringing up that BS he sounds like he feels a lot more important then he really is.
    In no way do I make any money from anyone related to the firearms industry.


    "I have never heard anyone say after a firefight that I wish that I had not taken so much ammo.", ME

    "Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can't make it without Texas !", General Sam Houston

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    Shooting people is a legal nightmare pretty much regardless of what you do it with.

    So just make sure it is a one sided story.
    In no way do I make any money from anyone related to the firearms industry.


    "I have never heard anyone say after a firefight that I wish that I had not taken so much ammo.", ME

    "Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can't make it without Texas !", General Sam Houston

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodgi View Post
    The instructor is active LEO and claims to testify as an expert witness on a federal level on a somewhat regular bases. He claimed that if you find yourself in court after a defensive shooting that the prosecution will have a field day. He said that he has testified in court where the defendant was accused of having a "hair trigger" and the prosecution built a case around that one point and made the defendant look like a vigilante.

    Let me guess........are the instructor's initials M.A.?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodgi View Post
    Ok I'll preface my question with a scolding that my friend got from the instructor at our last pistol training class. See he had the 3.5lbs disconnecter in his Glock and the instructor made it clear that a lighter trigger dose not belong in a carry gun.
    Saying that a lighter trigger does not belong on a carry gun is one thing if they are citing danger of an accidental discharge.


    The instructor is active LEO and claims to testify as an expert witness on a federal level on a somewhat regular bases. He claimed that if you find yourself in court after a defensive shooting that the prosecution will have a field day. He said that he has testified in court where the defendant was accused of having a "hair trigger" and the prosecution built a case around that one point and made the defendant look like a vigilante.
    In most cases the trigger weight of the gun used in a defensive shooting is not even weighed when it is taken into custody.

    There are a few exceptions.

    In one case that Ayoob was involved with, a man was confronted by a mugger and cocked the hammer of his revolver and claimed that it went off by accident, killing the mugger or the person threatening them who was around 20-30 feet away. He then went on to plead self defense. Maybe the guy actually meant to shoot the mugger & either could not deal with the mental aftermath and told himself it was an accident or thought that claiming the gun went off by accident it would go easier.

    I don't remember all of the particulars, like whether this was in New York City or whether the gun was not licensed.

    But the judge did not allow a self defense plea in the case, saying that self defense was a plea reserved for deliberate shootings and by the shooter's own admission, it was an accident.

    So the lesson from this is that if someone shoots someone in self defense and then claims that the gun went off by accident, you have just screwed up your own case by transforming it to one that you deliberately shot someone because you were in fear of your life to one where you shot someone by accident.

    more to come on another famous case . . .
    Last edited by Ed L.; 07-21-11 at 18:35.

  9. #39
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    There was another famous case was the Luis Alvarez--a Police officer in Miami. The trial was in 1984. Here is the best summary I could find of it: from: http://www.markseidenlaw.com/representative_cases.html:

    State of Florida v. Officer Luis Alvarez, 1984:

    "Luis Alvarez, a Cuban-American Miami Police Officer was acquitted of manslaughter charges in the shooting of a Dade County messenger Nevell Johnson, Jr. Attorney Mark Seiden was instrumental in helping gain an acquittal in this case. Officer Alvarez testified that he shot Johnson in self defense when Johnson, who had a .22-cal. Handgun hidden under his sweater , made a sudden move."

    I don't remember exactly, but I believe Alvarez had his gun out and had the person he shot at gunpoint while searching him, found a suspicious bulge and asked the suspect what it was. The suspect supposedly said, "It's a gun, & reached for it at which point the officer shot him in the back of the bhead killing him. The officer was Cuban American & the suspect was African American. I believe riots started as a result (or they may have been after the trial).

    Anyway, Florida State Atty General Janet Reno ordered that the Police officer stand trail for manslaughter. The prosecution found some expert witness that claimed that Officer Alvarez had an accidental discharge because the revolver was cocked and held on the subject in single action mode.

    Somehow, this cairvoyant expert witness who was not present at the scene of the shooting claimed that the gun was held on the deceased with the hammer cocked, even though the defendent claimed this was not the case. Anyway, Officer Alvarez was found not guilty and the Miami PD had all of their revolvers modified to fire DA only, which means that they were more concerned about law suits than they were that one of their officers might need to take a precision shot at a distance. The NYPD later did that with Revolvers issuesd to new recruits after a certain date.

    So how does this translate to ARs?

    I mean if someone breaks into your house & you legally defend yourself with an AR which is legal to own where you live, where it is legal to shoot someone who breaks into your house, is some prosecutor going to accuse you of accidentally shooting them because your trigger is lighter?

    The only way you going to wind up going to trial where the AR is legal to own shooting homebreakers is legal is if you do something incredibly wrong or stupid that falls outside of these definitions.

    I would be way more concerned about the reliability of a match trigger or aftermarket trigger in an AR, as I have seen several shit the bed or have issues in several classes.

    I shoot well enough with a stock AR trigger that it isn't an impediment to anything I would want to do in class or in real life.

    I have had my M&P9mm & M&P45 modified with trigger jobs by Bowie tactical since as the guns came from the factory their triggers were horrible and when shot side by side one of my Glocks or my USP 40 the groups & ability to knock down plates was horrible. I got However, both my M&Ps have the thumb safety to guard against issues where the lighter trigger might be more vulnerable to an AD if something gets caught in the trigger guard when holstering--since the triggers are around 4 lbs with almost no pre-travel.

  10. #40
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    dupe post
    Last edited by Ed L.; 07-21-11 at 19:54.

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