Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 5678 LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 79

Thread: Do you think building your own defensive rifle is a legal nightmare?

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    2,154
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    The reason that I get so annoyed with these "look bad in court" arguments is that I have seen them extended to levels of stupidity far beyond what Massad ever imagined when he first mentioned it almost 30 years ago in a completely different legal & firearm environment.

    I've heard a number of silly variations on this, including one ninny on a mouthbreater forum claim that an extended magazine on a pump action shotgun could be construed as premeditated murder while another gunstore liability lawyer on another forum bragged that he kept his double barrelled home defense shotgun loaded with birdshot so it reflect better on him in court since it wouldn't look like he was trying to kill anyone as it would if he loaded it with buckshot.

    Anyway . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Beat Trash View Post
    The ONLY time I could see trigger pull being an issue is if the defense was arguing that the gun discharged accidently. As in , "It's not my clients fault he accidently shot that nun, the gun went off by itself!" .
    Two issues with that:

    1. It was gross negligence to break one of the Cardinal rules and point the gun at a nun (or anyone).

    2. If that ever happened to anyone who told Priest or Nun jokes they would be toast. All the prosecution would have to do is trot out witness after witness onto the stand and have them repeat all of the religous jokes that the person told & it would look like deliberate Nunicide (Obviously I am just kiddding about the last part).

    Quote Originally Posted by Beat Trash View Post
    If you're really worried about the perception your gun might have on a jury, I guess you could have it dipped in a rainbow pattern.
    I understand that Sig is bringing out a Lady Gaga pattern AR.
    Last edited by Ed L.; 07-22-11 at 20:43. Reason: to make it funnier

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    962
    Feedback Score
    21 (100%)
    That would be a stretch even if you were a psychic and knew someone was going to break into your house beforehand.

    Its also annoying when people throw out a list of charges that may not exist in certain states. For example, there are no provisions for premeditated murder in OH. You can be charged with either murder or aggravated murder.

    This would make good company for the "Dumbest things heard in a gun shop" threat in the GD. I can just see it: "Dumbest arguments for prosecution of self defense acts".

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed L. View Post
    I've heard a number of silly variations on this, including one ninny on a mouthbreater forum claim that an extended magazine on a pump action shotgun could be construed as premeditated murder while another gunstore liability lawyer on another forum bragged that he kept his double barrelled home defense shotgun loaded with birdshot so it reflect better on him in court since it wouldn't look like he was trying to kill anyone as it would if he loaded it with buckshot.
    Last edited by Eric D.; 07-22-11 at 21:13.
    B.A.S. Mechanical Engineering Technology

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    2,154
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    That's the whole point. I'm just repeating some of the sheer idiocy that I've encountered elsewhere to show just how clueless some people are when it comes to this subject, and also why it ticks me off.

    Shooting someone who breaks into your house is the furthest thing from premeditated murder.

    For it to be premeditated you would have to do something like arrange for someone you know to break into your house to steal things for insurance purposes and then shoot them, making it appear to everyonethat you were really shooting a burglar who you put you in fear of your life.

    I would leave such plotting to Alfred Hitchcock, but he's been dead a while (no, he did not get shot breaking into someone's house).

    I'm sure me being so jocular in discussing such a serious subject would not look good in court . . .

    EDITED TO ADD: I am not trying to be a jerk to anyone in this thread and hope it doesn't sound that way. I am just pointing out how silly some of these arguments are.

    I've coined a new term for some of the people who advance them: "Gunstore Liability Lawyers."


    Quote Originally Posted by Eric D. View Post
    That would be a stretch even if you were a psychic and knew someone was going to break into your house beforehand.

    Its also annoying when people throw out a list of charges that may not exist in certain states. For example, there are no provisions for premeditated murder in OH. You can be charged with either murder or aggravated murder.

    This would make good company for the "Dumbest things heard in a gun shop" threat in the GD. I can just see it: "Dumbest arguments for prosecution of self defense acts".
    Last edited by Ed L.; 07-22-11 at 22:30.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Stuarts Draft, VA
    Posts
    930
    Feedback Score
    0
    I'm only pulling the trigger if I think I am going to die or suffer immeasurable injury. I am going to use the biggest, baddest, meanest weapon available. And, since the alternative is almost certain death - I'll take my chances with the courts.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    1,829
    Feedback Score
    21 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by prodgi View Post
    First off I wanted to post this question in the "general" page but I did not have access.

    Ok I'll preface my question with a scolding that my friend got from the instructor at our last pistol training class. See he had the 3.5lbs disconnecter in his Glock and the instructor made it clear that a lighter trigger dose not belong in a carry gun. The instructor is active LEO and claims to testify as an expert witness on a federal level on a somewhat regular bases. He claimed that if you find yourself in court after a defensive shooting that the prosecution will have a field day. He said that he has testified in court where the defendant was accused of having a "hair trigger" and the prosecution built a case around that one point and made the defendant look like a vigilante.
    I have a few concerns about this claim but overall I guess it's possible.

    So with that in mind. All of us here that have built our own AR's for whatever reason, are we setting ourselves up for disaster if, God forbid, we ever use our AR's in a defensive shooting?

    I wrote an article about this type of thing a few months back and from my research of shootings and talking with both LEOs and lawyers; unless you're in an area that is predominately unfriendly towards self defense shootings the only time the weapon comes into question is if the use of deadly force is questionable or the shooter does something to taint their defense. One investigator I talked to said he doesn't check that OEM tires with the manufacturer recommended tire pressure are installed if a car is used for deadly force so he sees no reason to give a gun anymore scrutiny as long as deadly force was within the legal guidelines. Florida law insults you from civil court if it's a "good shoot" so unless you're prosecuted for the shooting; your gun will never be seen in a court room.
    My advise is to know what the general attitude of law enforcement and prosecutor in your area concerning self defense shootings.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Where the wild beast are
    Posts
    893
    Feedback Score
    21 (100%)
    And here I'm all worried about shot placement when I should be concerned about springs....silly me....
    Per Ardua ad Astra.
    STS - gone but not forgotten.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Back where I belong
    Posts
    1,661
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    If I didn't make it clear the first time, when you get to this totally shitty part of your life, I really don't think you are going to care. I didn't. Like I said, I wasn't the target and it freaked me out. I became a believer in you default to your level of training when more than one incidence of gun fire happened to me(away from range, on street and yes unarmed). So argue the semantics and what happens after if your still alive. That is the only thing that counts. If you think different you have had better training than me or you have nothing to live for.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    541
    Feedback Score
    0
    I did not bother reading any of the other posts except the OP and to answer that question: NO!, in a defensive shoot wether in defense of your self or a third person the only question is wether the use of force was justified thats all. You may face other federal charges at a later time if lets say you used an NFA weapon without the legal paperwork behind it but it will not affect the outcome of your homicide charge as long as it was justified.

    ETA: disclaimer, do not take this as legal advice, my statement comes from my own and others experience in law enforcement. You should always be well aware of your local laws anyways before assuming the responsibility of owning a firearm.
    Last edited by OTO27; 07-23-11 at 14:58.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    233
    Feedback Score
    0
    My favorite example of a prosecutor grasping for straws was one where a cop was accused of murdering his wife. There was very flimsy circumstantial evidence, so the DA made big deal about the officer keeping a Terminator action figure on his desk and wearing a flat-top haircut. The DA tried to argue that the officer thought he was the Terminator. It was covered on one of the 48 Hrs / Dateline programs.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    486
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    That's pretty sad, dewatters, but it actually kind of goes along with my point on some things I said earlier as well, which is this.

    Once you're in court, the prosecution will do anything they can to put you in jail for the REST OF YOUR LIFE. Why, because they think you're guilty? Nah. Because they want to win, and court is a competition to any attorney. That's all. People are selfish and, more and more, fail to see things from any other human beings perspective. Once you're in court, the fact that you put together an emergency plan with your family in case of a burglary could be construed as you 'hoping there is some day a burglar so you can play the hero role and take him out'. It's just human nature, they'll use anything they can and it's up to the judge/jury whether they are competent enough to separate fabrication from reality.

Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 5678 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •