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Thread: Fate of the ACOG

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWood View Post
    Not sure if it's "remarkable", and I may be wrong, but I dont believe anything like USOs dual focal plane SN4 was available 5 years ago when I bought my Short Dot. The ONLY thing I don't like about the SD is the size of the dot in low light at 4X. I think a red dot in the second focal plane and a usable reticle in the first warrants my interest. I need to see if the reticle almost disappears at 1X like it does in the SD. I'd really like to see S & B offer this option.

    Not sure if it's actually available yet, but the price is right and USO is quality.

    http://www.cstactical.com/US-Optics/....html?vmcchk=1
    I don't understand why you couldn't use the large quartered ring in the FFP as a red dot? More precisely I don't really see the virtue of FFP in a 1-4x. If you wanted a precision shot, where you can use the reticle subtends, you'd want it cranked to 4x where it would be useful.

    I don't see the point of having both focal planes especially when you'd have to crank it up all the way on FFP anyways just like you would on an SFP. I can see how having an FFP would be useful if the reticle was big enough at 1x, I can see how SFP would be valid as a kind of do-all optic. I just don't view this as a game changer. The optic is simply an SFP by another fancy/cool name.

    USO makes great stuff and I vastly prefer FFP in my precision scopes but this seems like a solution in search of a problem. It doesn't even appear to be illuminated.

    But all told I'm sure it's a very nice scope for the cost. I definitely agree about the Short-Dot, the dot is way too small and the scope is too damn heavy and expensive for what it does.
    Last edited by Gutshot John; 07-22-11 at 10:21.
    It is bad policy to fear the resentment of an enemy. -Ethan Allen

  2. #22
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    At 75+ yards, the red dot is very helpful in making a precise shot in very low light. The reticle is only slightly visible in the looming darkness and the red dot at 4X is very large and bright. Eventually the reticle is gone but the target is still visible. Moving out past 100, the larger dot on 4X obscures even more of the target. A dot in the SFP that does not grow with the magnification would be useful to me.

    At 4X in daylight the reticle is useful and the size of the dot isn't as big an issue. At longer distances the dot isn't necessary at all.

    In the low light session of a carbine class, Randy Cain was interested in the SD as he mostly sees Aimpoints and EoTechs show up. He too was impressed with the short dot in the dark, except for the size of the dot on 4X. The large circle does nothing for a precise shot at 75-100 yards.

    At close distances, the optic is on 1X so a dot in the FFP is small, like it would be in the SFP. I would rather have the dot stay small all the time.

    May not be useful for anyone else, but I see a value in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gutshot John View Post
    The optic is simply an SFP by another fancy/cool name.
    Not really.
    Last edited by DWood; 07-22-11 at 10:40.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWood View Post
    Not really.
    Well unless I'm missing something at 1x the USO would would be SFP, at full magnification there is no difference it and an SFP since the reticle subtends work for both. The virtue of FFP is that the reticle works at all magnification settings (1-4x) but you're only talking about it at 1x and 4x. At the lowest setting the reticle would still be functional as a red dot, just like an SFP.

    So what does it do differently?

    Why not just get an SFP or an FFP?
    Last edited by Gutshot John; 07-22-11 at 11:16.
    It is bad policy to fear the resentment of an enemy. -Ethan Allen

  4. #24
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    The reticle is in the FFP and works like any FFP, it varies in size depending on the magnification.

    The dot and circle are in the SFP and remain the same size at any magnification.

    That is what appeals to me, which apparently is of no interest to you. It's all good.

    This certainly is not solely SFP, which I'm guessing why USO calls it Dual Focal Plane.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Goodtimes View Post
    In todays world of variable power optics is the ACOG still and advanced weapon sight or has it been surpassed in effectiveness by the variable power optics? I ask this partially out of curiosity and partly because I'm debating weather I should spend the money on one or not.

    I'm debating between a TR24G and TA33 GH or hold out until the next generation of Trijicon variables which hasn't even been announced yet. Id like to hear some opinions regarding positives and negatives to both. Do you think that the ACOG will be around for much longer given the advance in variable power optics?
    Sometimes I wonder if we focus on what is the latest and greatest, as opposed to "What do I shoot the best?" or "What fits my needs the best?"
    US Army Military Police 97-03
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    "There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter."
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWood View Post
    The reticle is in the FFP and works like any FFP, it varies in size depending on the magnification.

    The dot and circle are in the SFP and remain the same size at any magnification.

    That is what appeals to me, which apparently is of no interest to you. It's all good.

    This certainly is not solely SFP, which I'm guessing why USO calls it Dual Focal Plane.
    No I get that it's different from either a straight SFP or FFP but how it would actually be used doesn't do that much different from an SFP.

    If you're running it at 1x, you're functionally using it as an SFP, you're just using the circle/dot instead of the crosshair. If you're going to be using the circle/dot anyways why do you need an FFP at 1x?

    If you're running it at 4x, you're using it as an FFP, but at 4x an SFP is functionally the same as an FFP. If they both use a fully functional crosshair reticle at 4x what's the downside to an SFP?

    In short functionally it's the same as an SFP.

    The main difference as I understand it is that in FFP mode the crosshair stadia would still equal a mil/moa from 2-3x, but that assumes that the reticle is large enough to be functional but then so would a straight FFP optic.

    So I'm not getting what it does better than either of the other options but if you see the value, then hey it's all good.
    Last edited by Gutshot John; 07-22-11 at 15:32.
    It is bad policy to fear the resentment of an enemy. -Ethan Allen

  7. #27
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    OK, different approach to explaining why it interests me. The 1 X 4 is on my carbine that I like for 200-300 yards, yet want to be able to use at close range. With a 50 yard zero there is no need to hold over at 200 yards and at CQB you hold high to get a head shot, just like any 1X with a 50 yard zero.


    My Short Dot is strictly FFP. At 1x the reticle is almost invisible, and unusable, and the scope is almost like a pure RDS which is how I use it.

    At 4X, the reticle is magnified to a usable level in the FFP and can be shot in daylight without the dot. It allows much more precise shots at longer distances. Lighting the dot at 4X in daylight is fine; even though the dot is large, it is not distracting.

    I don't really use anything between 1X and 4X. It's either all up or all down. At 4X in low light, the size and brightness of the dot in the FFP is distracting and covers to much of the target (again, not a problem in daylight). It would be much more usefull to have the small dot all the time, with no visible reticle at 1x and with a visable and usefull reticle at 4X, which is what USO accomplished by putting the dot and circle in the SFP while the reticle is in the FFP.

    So the dual focal plane is interesting to me because the reticle is usable at 4X and the dot is small. At 1X, the reticle almost disappears and the optic is more like a pure RDS. If both were in the SFP, the reticle would not be useful at all since it is tiny and almost invisible.
    Last edited by DWood; 07-22-11 at 16:26.

  8. #28
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    The TA33 is a great optic. Very lightweight. Not too expensive.

  9. #29
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    Thinking about getting an ACOG again.
    We miss you, AC.
    We miss you, ToddG.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSGlock34 View Post
    "The ACOG mounted on the M16 service rifle has proven to be the biggest improvement in lethality for the Marine infantryman since the introduction of the M1 Garand in WWII." --Major General J.N. Mattis

    The Marines are buying ACOGs by the truckload, and they are in widespread use with the Army too. The ACOG will be with us for a long time. I'm intrigued by the ACOG model the Marines have chosen to equip the M27 Infantry Automatic Rifle, the Squad automatic Weapon Day Optic (SDO).



    I've owned several ACOGs, but I never hold onto them. Great optics, but most of the ranges in my area are 50 yards or less, and the ACOG's many advantages are wasted.
    If I was to get this ACOG, what range would I zero an 11.1'' gun with Mk. 262 at to make it compatible with the BDC, because this optic might beat the new Short Dot 1-8X for me.
    We miss you, AC.
    We miss you, ToddG.

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