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Thread: Fate of the ACOG

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutshot John View Post
    Wow you think? Similarly not all threats stand still some are moving and otherwise require you to be able to quickly spot and engage a target. Different target profiles require different techniques. Every optic has its limitations, every optic has its strengths. That's all I've tried to say. The claim that one scope does everything better is goofball.

    Inside of 100 yards, the RDS, at 1/4-1/5th the price and weight is still the best. Outside of 100 yards the ACOG at 1/3rd-1/4th the price and weight can do just about everything the variable power can do and if pure precision across a variety of ranges (100 yards +) is the game, I'd go with a 3-15x variable at any rate.

    Sorry but that's not really a game changer. You've heard the term jack-of-all trades...master of none. It does a lot of things well, but despite your claims it doesn't do everything well.

    At 4-5x the cost, it should not only shoot better, it better give me a handjob as well.



    Well you've walked 10 miles out of your way to miss the point but if it helps you to believe that...hey...knock yourself out.
    No one claimed the low power variables do everything better but they do most things very well and are far more versatile than a RDS sight or an ACOG. Also we are not talking cost. If cost were the issue you would be better off with irons they do fine compared to red dots except in low light. The only weakness to a low power variable is weight and the eye relief issue when shooting from akward positions . (minor issue that training can mitigate) As for game changer I know low power variables have taken over in three gun even in open class where shooters can use mulitple optics. Most still just use a good low power variable like the Swarovski Z6i. Sorry but you're wrong on this one. Three gun is a game that has very challenging courses of fire from close range to long and red dots could not keep up with low power variables. Many of our most skilled military units also use low power variables.

    As for missing the point it flew right over your head. The better you get at something the seemingly more easy it appears to others.

    Pat
    Last edited by Alaskapopo; 07-31-11 at 22:16.
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    No one claimed the low power variables do everything better but they do most things very well and are far more versatile than a RDS sight or an ACOG.
    Actually you made the claim that it was an RDS killer. What do you think that means?

    Like I said a hyperbolic, subjective option is just fine if you want to believe your own hype but that's a far cry from objective fact.

    As for missing the point it flew right over your head. The better you get at something the seemingly more easy it appears to others.
    LMAO you think I was impressed? You're not only still missing the point but apparently any concept of irony.

    Every criteria is a form of cost, money is just one factor, weight is a cost, speed is a cost, accuracy is a cost. You don't get to just blow one off because it's inconvenient to your conclusions.
    Last edited by Gutshot John; 07-31-11 at 22:54.
    It is bad policy to fear the resentment of an enemy. -Ethan Allen

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutshot John View Post
    Actually you made the claim that it was an RDS killer. What do you think that means?

    Like I said a hyperbolic, subjective option is just fine if you want to believe your own hype but that's a far cry from objective fact.



    LMAO you think I was impressed? You're not only still missing the point but apparently any concept of irony.

    Every criteria is a form of cost, money is just one factor, weight is a cost, speed is a cost, accuracy is a cost. You don't get to just blow one off because it's inconvenient to your conclusions.
    I don't care if your impressed or not. One thing I do notice is a lack of any thing from you to prove your theory that RDS's are always faster. You said you ran some drills but you did not post the results. I not only have posted the results I have shown it on video. My statements are not vague over statements from memory but rather documented tests. These were not the only drils I have ran. I have also ran similar drills at 25 yards, 50 yards and 100 yards with multiple different optics and I have posted the results on this site in the past. So put your money where your mouth is and run some drills record them and show us your proof.

    Yes I admit there are costs such as weight and the issues with akward positions. However taken as a whole the low power variable concept kills the RDS one when you are looking at a do all optic. With the leaps low power variables have taken there is little need or justificaiton to use full size red dots (micro still have a place) or ACOGS. You can think what you want but in the end of the day its just your narrow opinion. I have trained on and used all the systems in question and I am confident with my choice.
    Pat
    Last edited by Alaskapopo; 07-31-11 at 23:06.
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
    USPSA# A56876 A Class
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  4. #54
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    Great debate gentlemen. I'm a bit of a simpleton and I still only have irons on my 6920, and I haven't gone beyond a self debate to deciding if I want to put an aimpoint, a TR24 or an ACOG on my rifle that fills the role of essentially a general purpose/homestead defense carbine, so I'm watching this debate carefully.
    Formerly known as "Son of Vlad Tepes"

  5. #55
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    Clearly they aren't dead...but the mounting solution designed around fitting carrying handles seems like it ought to be.

    I'd like to see an ACOG built from the ground up designed to attach to rails. Perhaps like the newer Aimpoints where they have flat bottoms ready to attach straight to a mount.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by thopkins22 View Post
    Clearly they aren't dead...but the mounting solution designed around fitting carrying handles seems like it ought to be.

    I'd like to see an ACOG built from the ground up designed to attach to rails. Perhaps like the newer Aimpoints where they have flat bottoms ready to attach straight to a mount.
    Larue mounts do a very good job of this. I have used them on all the ACOGS I have owned without issue.
    Pat
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
    USPSA# A56876 A Class
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    Armorer for AR15, 1911, Glocks and Remington 870 shotguns.

  7. #57
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    I take it nobody knows what range to zero a 11.1'' gun with Mk. 262 using with the M249/IAR reticle...
    We miss you, AC.
    We miss you, ToddG.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Salad0892 View Post
    I take it nobody knows what range to zero a 11.1'' gun with Mk. 262 using with the M249/IAR reticle...
    Do you have a chrono? The velocity would help.
    Pat
    Last edited by Alaskapopo; 08-01-11 at 01:35.
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
    USPSA# A56876 A Class
    Firearms Instructor
    Armorer for AR15, 1911, Glocks and Remington 870 shotguns.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    Do you have a chrono? The velocity would help.
    Pat
    Should have thought about that.

    Shouldn't it be around.... 23-2500 fps?... I don't have a chrono, I'm just going off of what it should be on a 10.5'' and adding like 100.
    We miss you, AC.
    We miss you, ToddG.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Salad0892 View Post
    Should have thought about that.

    Shouldn't it be around.... 23-2500 fps?... I don't have a chrono, I'm just going off of what it should be on a 10.5'' and adding like 100.
    Well when I was running my 14.5 inch gun with the standard reticle for a 62 grain load I ended up sighting in 2 inches high at 100 yards and I was able to ring steel to 400 yards.
    Pat
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
    USPSA# A56876 A Class
    Firearms Instructor
    Armorer for AR15, 1911, Glocks and Remington 870 shotguns.

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